Posted on 10/19/2011 8:15:23 AM PDT by Brookhaven
Herman Cain eliminates the current 35% corporate income tax plus the current 15.3% payroll tax, and replaces them with a 9% corporate income tax.
I normally don’t go after candidates personally, because I think the best route is to present your ideas in a positive fashion, but Michele Bachmann went so far over the line in the Las Vegas debate that I can’t just let it pass without comment. Look at the first line of this story. You need to understand those numbers to comprehend just how disingenuous Bachmann’s comments were.
Bachmann attempted to paint the 9% corporate income tax in Cain’s 999 plan as a VAT (value added tax), because it doesn’t exempt labor and thus is in effect a 9% tax on labor. I don’t agree with her (because Cain’s plan treats capital and labor the same to level business expenses), but let’s grant her the point for the sake of this debate and say Cain’s plan includes a 9% tax on labor. Now let’s look at the current tax system:
* 35% corporate income tax
* 15.3% payroll tax (a direct tax on labor)
Michele Bachmann stood on stage making accusations about the damage a 9% tax on labor would cause; even claiming it was a VAT. Yet, she never mentioned that the current tax code contains a 15.3% direct tax on labor—a higher tax on labor that Cain’s.
I don’t mind people going after the 999 plan. The sales tax criticism in Las Vegas, for example, was perfectly legitimate in my opinion. We need to have honest, vigorous debates over tax policies, and any change as big as Cain is suggestion should be thoroughly vetted before it is implemented.
But, what Michele Bachmann did was not honest. She deliberately withheld information in an attempt to mischaracterize Cain’s plan as a VAT, and confuse people over the effects of the 999 plan vs. the current tax system. A lie by omission is still a lie. Michele Bachmann crossed the line in Las Vegas.
PS
Yes, I know the payroll tax is deductible for businesses, but that just lowers the amount they have to pay by their current income tax rate (35%), it does not eliminate their tax expense. When a company writes off that 15.3%, it still ends up being a direct cost to the company of 9.95% of their payroll amount—still more than Cain’s 9%.
She is a Tax Lawyer?
Where’s HER tax plan?
Bachmann wants everone to have some skin in the game, even if it’s a dollar (which got a lot of cheers). But I didn’t hear how she would make that happen.
Isn’t that what 999 does ?
Lawyer seems to be the operative word here.
Remember, John Edwards was a lawyer also.
You could try her website.
Of course it was rather dishonest of Ms Bachmann to leave out the fact Cain’s plan eliminates the business matching taxes on SS and Medicare.
actually yes
The 999 plan is a tough sell, but like fightingJAG said “999 is critical to preserving our freedom, not just engendering our prosperity.”
Make no mistake, Cain’s competitors will try to skew the facts. The IRS, tax accountants/lawyers, and tax preparation companies will fight so they don’t lose their jobs. Obama’s cronies won’t be too happy either.
It will be an uphill battle with the MSM on Obama’s side.
We are at a crossroads now and we must steer the country on the path to freedom.
No Michelle is a majorette jumping ahead of the Tea Party pretending to be the leader. She is also someone that will be hard pressed in getting reelected in my home state next election. So she better win the nomination or be unemployed quite likely. She has missed over 60 votes and counting and which the folks will not forget nor should they.
I think Cain’s and Bachmann’s plans should be combined. I challenge anyone to step away from the American Idle crap and find anything wrong with her plans.
http://www.michelebachmann.com/issues/americanjobsrightnow/
From the Laffer article in the WSJ:
“Thus, Mr. Cain’s 9-9-9 tax base for his business tax is $9.5 trillion, for his income tax $7.7 trillion, and for his sales tax $8.3 trillion. And there you have it! Three federal taxes at 9% that would raise roughly $2.3 trillion and replace the current income tax, corporate tax, payroll tax (employer and employee), capital gains tax and estate tax.”
It would appear that about 38% of the revenue from the 9-9-9 plan would be derived from the corporate tax. Looking at the current Monthly Treasury reports, corporate income tax accounts for about 8% of revenues under the current plan. Assigining half the retierment/insurance receipts brings the corporate share to 26% of revenue.
Agreed. Likewise in adding the 9% sales tax, I believe Cain is eliminating other taxes paid by workers, and lowering most people’s income taxes to 9%.
You only pay the 9% on certain goods and you only pay that tax when you choose to buy something. Lots of money is spent other than on goods.
Laffer explained this best, how the idea is good because it will recapture all the money being hidden from the system at present, as well as tons of money being parked overseas.
The growth of our out of control Federal Government tracks directly to the implementation of the income tax.
As long as you give politicians a potentially unlimited income stream, as the income tax does, they will find ways to spend it.
We can cut and cut and cut but the spending always comes back. Reagan cut the most of any modern President and the spending came back plus more.
Until you address the revenue side, Federal Spending is not going to be controlled no matter how much any President cuts.
You have to limit the Congress’s ability to spend and borrow money (Cut, Cap, and Tax) but then you also need to limit it’s revenue stream. Cain’s 9-9-9 does that. Other Candidates should come up with their own ideas on how to accomplices the same goal. The current tax does is both corrupt and inefficient.
The genius of Cain’s 9-9-9 is, for the 1st time, there is a leading Presidential Candidate putting out a plan to limit Fed revenue. The key components is the sale tax. By spreading a lower over all tax burden to all Americans he creates an insurmountable problem for any future tax raises.
How do you convince people to give you more taxes when they personally know they will pay for the tax hike?
See the trick now is Congress can always disguise any tax hike by hiding it inside the overly complex tax code. By tweaking around the edges with the tax code they can gradually and systematically raise taxes with virtually no one noticing.
9-9-9 eliminates that ability to “tinker around the edges” of a mind numbingly complex tax code
Much of it is repeating stuff that we’ve heard for years now like:
“We need to reduce the number of tax brackets, repeal taxes outlined in Obamacare, fix the Alternative Minimum Tax, and eliminate the Death Tax. “
I like starting with throwing out the entire tax code a lot better.
I thought her characterization of 9-9-9 as a VAT last night was dishonest.
For clarity: She wasn't talking about the 9% corporate tax as a VAT. She was talking about the 9% sales tax as being a VAT.
I don’t hate Bachman but in terms of her being president, I observed her at the big March on Washington and I can’t explain it but I got a negative vibe. Maybe that she’s a little uptight and trying to project herself into a power positon that is over her level of achievement.
I thought about it later and thought, well maybe it’s good that a president be haughty, if they are effective.
I like MB but she’s way out of her league. She’s just along for the ride at this point but we need her voice back there in the congress. She can debate the merits of 9-9-9 in congress when Herman Cain is president. Michelle we love ya but please exit the stage.
Honestly I don’t believe you folks really care about plans or actually fixing things. Just give you the right soundbite from the right person and you’ll be happy.
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