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To: Jeff Winston
Nice enough diagram. But it is based on theory unsupported by virtually every legal authority in history. And by history itself.

That's your opinion, based upon your selective interpretation of historical evidence.

As I've told you before, the Natural Born Citizen topic has been discussed in great depth for many years on this forum, and anyone who followed those conversations during the first two years of Obama's time in office, has heard every conceivable side of the argument.

One of the more scholarly posts on the subject was penned by Freeper Sourcery in January 2012. Here's an excerpt, and a link to the full article. I highly recommend reading all of it:

"The Constitution requires that the President of the United States must be a natural born citizen:

Article II, section 1, pa. 5: "No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States."

If "natural born citizen" is a synonym for "citizen," then there is no reason for adding the exception "or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution." None at all. Being a citizen is not sufficient, unless you happened to be alive when the Constitution was adopted.

So what, then, is a "natural born citizen"? To answer that question definitively will require a full examination of the concepts and history of citizenship.

Types Of Citizenship: Jus Soli, Jus Sanguinis, Natural Born, Native Born, Naturalized

Jus soli citizenship: "Jus soli" is a Latin phrase meaning "law of the soil." Jus soli citizenship is any citizenship that inheres in a person based on the location of his or her birth.

Jus sanguinis citizenship: "Jus sanguinis" is a Latin phrase meaning "law of the blood." Jus sanguinis citizenship is any citizenship that inheres in a person based on his or her ancestry.

Native born citizenship: A native born citizen is one whose citizenship derives from the facts of his birth, and who becomes a citizen at the moment of birth. In both US and British law, those born within the sovereign territory of the country or born to parents who are citizens (subjects) of the country when the person is born are native citizens (subjects.) Native born persons are said to have "birthright citizenship." Note that one can be "native born" either by the "jus soli" principle or by the "jus sanguinis" principle.

Naturalized citizenship: A naturalized citizen is one whose citizenship is granted as a political act—by law or by the decision or act of a sovereign.

Natural born citizenship: A natural born citizen is one whose citizenship is not granted by law or by any act of a sovereign, but inheres naturally in the person from birth according to principles that don't depend on laws or decisions of a sovereign. The rest of this essay will fully justify this definition.

The Constitution of the United States did not originally explicitly define who did or did not not qualify as citizens. It originally had clauses where the general term citizen occurs, and had one clause where the specific term natural born citizen occurs (quoted above.) But the Constitution does grant Congress the power to define by law who shall be citizens:

Congress shall have power….To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization [Article I, Section 8]

Why did the Constitution limit the power it granted Congress over matters of citizenship to naturalization? Because Citizenship acquired solely by any law passed by Congress cannot logically be anything other than naturalized citizenship—by definition of naturalization. It's logically impossible for any act of Congress to make anyone a citizen by natural law. At most, such a law would be declaratory of natural law—because a citizen by natural law is a citizen no matter what laws Congress may or may not enact.

In fact, given the Founders' understanding of natural law versus man-made law, it would have been a logical contradiction to grant Congress the power to change or define natural law on any subject, not just regarding citizenship—because natural law, by late 18th-century definition, cannot be made by a legislature or head of state. That's why Congress was granted no such powers in any domain at all. Such a power could be used, among other things. to change the meaning of words, including those in the Constitution itself. The dangers of that should be obvious."

The Constitutional Meaning Of "Natural Born Citizen"

58 posted on 03/13/2013 6:53:28 PM PDT by Windflier (To anger a conservative, tell him a lie. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth.)
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To: Windflier
As I've told you before, the Natural Born Citizen topic has been discussed in great depth for many years on this forum, and anyone who followed those conversations during the first two years of Obama's time in office, has heard every conceivable side of the argument.

I've heard every conceivable side of the argument, and the fallacies by those who claim natural born citizenship takes both birth on US soil and citizen parents are both numerous and well-documented.

Not that it matters for those who want to believe the theory. A lot of people will choose to believe whatever they think sounds good, whether it's true or not.

It's just disturbing to find it among conservatives.

67 posted on 03/13/2013 7:20:45 PM PDT by Jeff Winston
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To: Windflier; DiogenesLamp
Native born citizenship: A native born citizen is one whose citizenship derives from the facts of his birth, and who becomes a citizen at the moment of birth. In both US and British law, those born within the sovereign territory of the country or born to parents who are citizens (subjects) of the country when the person is born are native citizens (subjects.)

This, IMHO, has caused one of the two BIGGEST points of confusion on the subject.

While it’s quite true that both British and US law acknowledged jus soli, the authority where it resides is quite different that what most people think-

The common law has affixed such distinct and appropriate ideas to the terms denization, and naturalization, that they can not be confounded together, or mistaken for each other in any legal transaction whatever. They are so absolutely distinct in their natures, that in England the rights they convey, can not both be given by the same power; the king can make denizens, by his grant, or letters patent, but nothing but an act of parliament can make a naturalized subject.
This was the legal state of this subject in Virginia, when the federal constitution was adopted; it declares that congress shall have power to establish an uniform rule of naturalization; throughout the United States; but it also further declares, that the powers not delegated by the constitution to the U. States, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states, respectively or to the people. The power of naturalization, and not that of denization, being delegated to congress, and the power of denization not being prohibited to the states by the constitution, that power ought not to be considered as given to congress, but, on the contrary, as being reserved to the states.

St. George Tucker,[annotated] Blackstone's Commentaries

Jus soli citizenship may HAVE been part of English Law, but the ‘King’ in America is the States. The power of denization is theirs, NOT the federal governments.

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Secondly, the repeated sentence from Vattel all the way to Wong Kim Ark ‘native, or natural born’ suggests a single type of citizen because the word *OR* is not an exclusive one [as in either ‘or’] , but a refining/ restatement *OR*.

Here’s the link for anyone who would like to see for themselves - Usage of the conjunction ‘or’

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So, IMHO, there are only 2 types of citizens; those made by Nature, and those made by man.

104 posted on 03/14/2013 6:58:14 AM PDT by MamaTexan (To follow Original Constitutional Intent, one MUST acknowledge the Right of Secession)
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