Jessie Ventura on Illegal Immigration

Email ^ | 10-11-03 | Jessie Ventura

[JustPiper]

Jessie's assistant was nice enough to email me this for it was not in the transcript or online.

Here you go. It was in the second half of the show, so that is what I'm sending.....

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(NEWSBREAK)

VENTURA: According to media accounts, in 2002, Arizona taxpayers

spent an estimated $1 billion on illegal immigrants. It is estimated that

over 200,000 illegal immigrants live in Arizona, and that over 4,000

households of illegal immigrants benefit from Arizona`s Medicaid program.

While current laws restrict illegals from gaining access to many state

benefits, most government agencies don`t have the time or money to screen

benefit seekers. With little or no enforcement of immigration laws, many

government services and jobs are taken by illegal immigrants. It shouldn`t

be surprising that citizens of Arizona are up in arms when million of their

tax dollars are going to people who have no legal right to be in this

country.

If the United States sent thousands of its citizens to Canada and they

started living off the Canadian welfare system, you can believe that it

wouldn`t be long before we either got a bill for their hospitality or there

would be busloads of illegal American immigrants being escorted back to the

United States.

Incredibly, "The New York Times" reported this week that the United

States border patrol in Laredo (ph), Texas, recently released scores of

illegal immigrants from its detention center because of the lack of space

and money. Can you believe that? Sure. We`ve got $87 billion for Iraq,

but we can`t seem to find a few bucks to enforce our own immigration laws.

It`s about time we get our act together and help our states with this very

serious problem.

The United States is the greatest country on this earth, but the fact

is we all can`t live here. With me today to talk about this problem in

Arizona is Kathy McKee, who heads up an organization called Protect Arizona

Now. On the other side of the issue is Luz Sarmina Gutierrez, did the best

I could, Luz, the president of a nonprofit social service agency in

Phoenix, Arizona. Welcome, Luz, welcome, Kathy. Briefly, Kathy, what is

Protect Arizona?

KATHY MCKEE, PROTECT ARIZONA NOW: It`s a committee that is

spearheading a statewide citizens initiative drive to get on the ballot in

2004, the Arizona Taxpayer and Citizen Protection Act. It would simply

require proof of citizenship to register to vote, photo I.D. to vote and

proof of eligibility for non-federally mandated benefits.

VENTURA: Wait, wait a second. To vote?

MCKEE: Yes.

VENTURA: Illegal immigrants can vote?

MCKEE: Oh, yes. And we have a governor that`s sitting in the

governor`s mansion...

VENTURA: Wait a minute, wait a minute. That`s against -- that`s

voter fraud, isn`t it? I mean, if you`re -- if you are not a citizen of

the country and you go and vote and you`re not eligible to vote, is that

not voter fraud? That`s a punishable offense.

MCKEE: Yes. That`s why we have been under a Justice Department voter

watch. Because, in our state, you can register to vote over the Internet.

You can call up and request a ballot to be mailed to you. And then you can

vote by mail, and you have never even shown your face, much less any I.D.,

to prove who you are or to prove that you are legally registered to vote,

and they don`t check anything. So you can register your dog, and we have

had people who have done -- that have done that. Register your minor

children. People have done that, anybody.

VENTURA: What will the initiative do if it`s successful?

MCKEE: It will -- actually, it only is going to require enforcement

of existing laws. It`s no new laws.

VENTURA: OK, sure.

MCKEE: It will require...

VENTURA: It`s a shame you have to do that.

MCKEE: Isn`t it a shame that the citizens of our state have to tell

the government to get out of our way because they won`t do their job for 30

years, that we`re going to do it and -- and just get our laws enforced.

VENTURA: OK.

MCKEE: It`s the government that`s the villain in all this.

VENTURA: OK. Luz, what`s your view on the problems of illegal

immigrants? Obviously, you are taking an opposite viewpoint.

LUZ SARMINA-GUTIERREZ, PRES., VALLE DEL SOL: I certainly do.

Undocumented people are not the ones who are out there voting. The

majority of people who are undocumented want to stay underneath the radar.

They know they are undocumented, and they don`t want to be caught, they

don`t want to be sent back. Their jobs are in this country at this point,

and they need to stay there.

VENTURA: Yeah, I would tend to think it would be difficult, or why an

undocumented alien would want to vote...

SARMINA-GUTIERREZ: They don`t.

VENTURA: ... because that is voter fraud. That`s -- I believe it is

a felony.

SARMINA-GUTIERREZ: Sure it is.

VENTURA: And you could go to prison for that. I guess -- let me ask

you this, though, Luz. How do you defend Arizona, what I talked about at

the top, their tax dollars going to pay for benefits that people who aren`t

even supposed to be here.

SARMINA-GUTIERREZ: Benefits are a result of the taxes that people

pay, and undocumented people pay taxes. And the fact is...

VENTURA: How do you know?

SARMINA-GUTIERREZ: How do I know? Because they purchase goods.

VENTURA: Well, then they pay a sales tax.

SARMINA-GUTIERREZ: Yes, they do.

VENTURA: But they are not paying an income tax.

SARMINA-GUTIERREZ: They may or may not be paying an income tax.

VENTURA: Well...

SARMINA-GUTIERREZ: But they are paying taxes. They are paying more

taxes than they are actually receiving in benefits, by $100 million more.

VENTURA: But wait, but wait, Luz. I -- that`s great, but the problem

is they are illegal.

SARMINA-GUTIERREZ: What does that have to do with it?

VENTURA: Oh, it has a great deal to do with it, because to me, then -

- then we have to make a choice in this country. We either take down our

borders and let everyone pass and come and go freely or we enforce the laws

we have on the books, which means you have to be -- you have to go through

certain procedure to enter this country. Now, Luz, in light of terrorism

the way it is today, I don`t think anybody in their right mind is going to

advocate us tearing down our borders...

SARMINA-GUTIERREZ: Neither would I.

VENTURA: ... and allowing the free passage of people to come and flow

from inside the United States of America, and my point being, doesn`t this

do a disservice to every other immigrant who went through it the proper way

and filled out the forms, did everything legal to come to this country?

Doesn`t this undermine and virtually say to them, well, tough luck to you?

We`re going to give these benefits to people who didn`t do what you had to

do?

SARMINA-GUTIERREZ: Actually, there is a third solution, Jesse. And

that solution that makes the most sense is for us to change our laws. We

have had immigration in this country that has supported our labor forever -

- really, from the Irish, from the Italians, from the Chinese, those people

have come into this country and have been the labor force of the jobs that

people don`t want to do. And we have policies that are not enforceable.

VENTURA: They are not enforceable?

SARMINA-GUTIERREZ: They are not enforceable. If they were, CEO`s of

corporations who are hiring people to do jobs when they are undocumented

would also be locked up, because they are responsible.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They have to be...

SARMINA-GUTIERREZ: They are responsible. And we`re punishing the

illegal person who has no documents yet is working here.

VENTURA: But -- but who still knows they broke the law to get here,

because they are sneaking in. Come on now, Luz, you`ve got -- you`ve got

to give me that one.

SARMINA-GUTIERREZ: I will give you that. I promise. I will give you

that.

VENTURA: They are not going through the normal border.

SARMINA-GUTIERREZ: I will give you that.

VENTURA: They are sneaking into the country.

SARMINA-GUTIERREZ: That`s correct.

VENTURA: So they know that what they are doing is illegal and wrong.

And so to me, it becomes very difficult to reward people for breaking laws,

whether enforced or not enforced.

SARMINA-GUTIERREZ: We`re not rewarding people for breaking laws.

VENTURA: Sure, you`re giving them benefits.

SARMINA-GUTIERREZ: We`re giving them jobs. They need the jobs.

VENTURA: What about the jobs of everybody up here?

MCKEE: Thank you. That figure that the $100 million surplus is

preposterous. Thirty-six to 42 percent of the illegal aliens in this

country are on welfare. They are not contributing a centavo. And the ones

that are getting a job are doing so at the expense of the 18 million

Americans who cannot find a job.

VENTURA: See, to me...

MCKEE: About 25 percent of our prisoners are illegal aliens, so they

are coming here for crime and welfare. They are not just coming here to

work.

VENTURA: There, you know, I understand that, but to me you have to

strip away all the repercussions and go to one basic fact. And that is

there are laws that you have to follow to enter this country, and when

people don`t follow that law, they should not be rewarded in any way,

shape, or form because to me that shows that we don`t enforce our laws and

we don`t advocate that people need to follow them.

SARMINA-GUTIERREZ: But we can`t be such hypocrites about it.

VENTURA: What our hypocrites? What is hypocritical...

SARMINA-GUTIERREZ: If we are hiring -- if we are hiring them, then we

are being hypocritical. We are not prosecuting the people who are hiring

them. And let me tell you, this economy ...

VENTURA: What about prosecuting the people that come across the

border?

SARMINA-GUTIERREZ: You know what? That`s happening. It is

happening.

VENTURA: I won`t go into what we used to do back in the SEALs when I

went through training, because I`m getting a lot of -- but now, is it true

70 percent of Arizonians favor this, and yet the politicians are opposed to

it. Why?

MCKEE: Actually, 78 percent of the people who are registered -- who

were in that poll and are going to vote will vote for it. The GOPUSA poll,

96 percent of the Republicans in our state support this. You have John

McCain, Jim Kolbe, and Jeff Flake thumbing their nose at their own

constituents.

VENTURA: All right. We`ll be right back. I have to cut you off,

we`ll be back right after this. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VENTURA: Welcome back to JESSE VENTURA`S AMERICA. We were talking

about illegal immigrant problems, specifically today in Arizona. Let`s

rejoin our guests, Kathy McKee is supporting an initiative to bar illegal

immigrants from obtaining most social services in the state of Arizona, Luz

Sarmina-Gutierrez thinks that it is unfair to bar illegal immigrants from

these services. Luz, say -- some say that prejudice is a factor in this.

Do you agree? Do you think it`s prejudice against the people, Mexican or

Hispanic people?

SARMINA-GUTIERREZ: It could be that for some people, but I wouldn`t

go and say that that`s the main reason. I think people like Kathy truly

believe in what they are saying. However, people who come over here to

work and are working are paying for their benefits. And let me tell you,

this law is unnecessary. It`s already on the books. By Kathy`s own

admission, it`s on the books that laws need to be enforced. Passing

another initiative will not enforce it any more.

VENTURA: Well then, Luz, how do you get them if it`s already on the

books, how do you get them to enforce it then?

SARMINA-GUTIERREZ: Change the laws.

VENTURA: See...

SARMINA-GUTIERREZ: The laws are not working.

VENTURA: Well, but isn`t that what she is attempting to do in a way,

shape, or form?

SARMINA-GUTIERREZ: No, she is talking...

VENTURA: She is trying -- she is trying to bring it to light again,

and just so that the law will be enforced in some manner?

SARMINA-GUTIERREZ: I think she is trying to bring it to light, but

that`s not what`s going to enforce it.

VENTURA: OK.

SARMINA-GUTIERREZ: It`s unenforceable. It`s hypocritical for us to

say, let`s punish the people who are undocumented, but let`s let not let

everybody else go.

VENTURA: Well, of course, we could punish them all.

SARMINA-GUTIERREZ: That would be all right. I mean, if we`re going

to enforce...

VENTURA: So what do we do?

SARMINA-GUTIERREZ: ... then let`s enforce.

VENTURA: Then what do we do with these guys we punish here, send them

across the border to the other country and make them go work down there?

MCKEE: That would...

VENTURA: Anyway, let`s go to the audience a little bit. Go ahead.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There is some -- there is a lot of hypocrisy

here. And to me it`s the equivalent of going after -- prosecuting

prostitutes and not the johns. In this case the corporations are the

johns, because sometimes they are going out to find illegal immigrants.

There is a case of Marathon Oil in St. Paul Park, where they bring in, they

bus in illegal immigrants, they keep them in hotels. It`s like a rent a

slave program, because they don`t want to pay union wages.

VENTURA: Sure. And I`ll -- and I`ll agree to that, but the issue is

them coming across the border in the first place, isn`t it?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, the majority of the illegal immigrants...

VENTURA: You know, because if they couldn`t get across the border in

the first place, none of these corporations would then have the

availability to use them.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Exactly.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That`s a problem, Jesse. A lot of the

undocumented workers that come to this country come legally, on visiting

visas and other visas, and then they overstay the visa.

VENTURA: So they break the rules.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They break the rules, but the idea of people

crawling over the border is wrong. That`s not the way it happens.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, there is still a lot of that happening.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Everybody is missing the point. They are changing

the language so that it`s politically correct. Illegal is illegal.

Undocumented is undocumented. But illegal is illegal.

VENTURA: That`s the bottom line I am coming from. Is that the basic

thing, is they are here illegally. That -- that supersedes all the rest of

it in my opinion.

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So what happens -- what happens if we enact this

law, and we really enforce it and we turn -- we cut these guys loose?

What`s the social -- these are, you know, immigrants, they are still going

to be in our country. It`s not like we just give them a plane ticket and

bus them off. What are the strains on our, you know, streets...

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They just come back, Jesse. That`s the point.

When you send them back, they come back.

VENTURA: That`s the point, that`s exactly the point. How do we get

control of them from just coming back?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If they are (UNINTELLIGIBLE).

VENTURA: It`s better to document them at the border. Why don`t we

set up a border thing that says all illegal aliens that want to work come

to this line. And we`ll get, you know, and then you`ll at least get a 30-

day I.D. or some -- but then, what do we do when they break the rule and

don`t leave when they are supposed to?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You track them.

VENTURA: You see, it`s a two-way street. When they want something

from us and they want an advantage from us, in turn they then have to give

something back to us.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But they have in taxes. There are taxes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Come on.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There are, there are.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Come on.

(CROSSTALK)

VENTURA: OK.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They are not paying income tax.

VENTURA: All right. Should President Bush call for an illegal

immigration summit in North America? I say yes, because you have a problem

here that`s welling and growing and growing. Not only Arizona.

California, Texas, all over. I think President Bush should take an

initiative, call a summit, President Fox, other presidents and people

representative of all these countries, and try to work this problem out.

And for those countries to do something about stopping their people from

simply influxing and coming across to our border.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, I can`t believe that, you know, the most

powerful country in the world cannot control our borders. So the

government also ...

VENTURA: It`s easy they can`t control our borders. That`s simple to

know why they can`t.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They don`t want to.

VENTURA: No, no. What are we -- what are we to do? Put up a cyclone

fence with the military standing there with the M-16`s at the border?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, it ...

VENTURA: We could do it.

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... the economy. These people are fueling our

economy. So it`s not -- it`s not advantageous to the government to really

do something about it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t think people are really looking at...

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The reason is my mom ...

(CROSSTALK)

VENTURA: OK, All right. Kathy, how do you respond to what a lot of

people have said?

MCKEE: They are buying into the myth. 10,000 a day, a day illegal

immigrants cross our Tucson border alone, into the Tucson sector. That`s a

new Phoenix every year, people. They are not coming here just to work.

The 35 -- the 36 to 42 percent that are on welfare certainly -- there -- we

have no employers to go after. Look at this. This is our application for

welfare in Arizona. It says on here in big, bold letters -- you must tell

us your immigration status, but in big, bold letters, we will not report

this information to the INS. Citizens they arrest for welfare fraud. Our

welfare department will not report these people to the INS.

VENTURA: Now I think that`s outrageous. When you read that, and it

tells them straightforward right on the application we need to know your

status, but trust us, we`re not going to report you for anything. To me,

those are two government agencies; the left hand doesn`t know what the

right hand is doing. Luz.

SARMINA-GUTIERREZ: State employees are not in the immigration

enforcement business. They are in the state employees business. And

you`re asking them to now become enforcers. That`s impossible.

VENTURA: No, no, no.

SARMINA-GUTIERREZ: Yes.

VENTURA: In this country, when you see a crime committed, you`re

obligated to report that crime. If you`re a citizen out on the street and

you see a wrongdoing, it`s your obligation ...

SARMINA-GUTIERREZ: Correct.

VENTURA: ... to report to the authorities what you saw. That is --

if you`re here illegally, that`s the breaking of a law, and I think you`re

obligated to report that.

SARMINA-GUTIERREZ: You know what?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And they are also supposed to be serving the

state. By allowing undocumented immigrants to take welfare from normal,

regular citizens, you`re doing a disservice to your state.

MCKEE: And we have ...

VENTURA: OK, very good. Kathy, we would love to go on. We`re only

an hour show. Luz, thank you very much to both of you for flying up here.

Thank you, Luz and Kathy. We will be back right after this to JESSE

VENTURA`S AMERICA

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VENTURA: There is always a lot of heroes and dorks in the news, but

every week I`ll pick who I think is the biggest hero and the biggest dork

of the week. You can nominate a hero and a dork by dropping me an e-mail

at ventura@msnbc.com.

Let`s start this week with the hero. This week, we heard about a

Toronto police detective who just plain got fed up. Sergeant Paul

Gillespie works in the sex crimes unit and specializes in cases involving

child exploitation, specifically child porn on the Internet. Sergeant

Gillespie sent an e-mail to a high-ranking manager at Microsoft, asking for

help in designing software to bust those who traffic in the child porn net.

The e-mail landed on the desk of Bill Gates. The result, Microsoft is

now working at no cost with the Toronto Police Department and is ready to

roll out the first trial of a sophisticated search tool to help in the

fight against the hundreds of thousands of child porn sites on the

Internet.

Sergeant Gillespie, because of your efforts to fight the proliferation

of child porn, you are making this world a better place. And you are my

hero of the week.

Now it`s time for the dork of the week. You know, when you play with

wild animals, you run the risk of being bitten by the hand that feeds you.

No, I`m not talking about the tragic event in Las Vegas. Siegfried & Roy

are professionals. This week`s dork is not a professional animal handler.

Our dork is an Antoine Yates.

Doesn`t appear six days a week on stage with his tiger. Mr. Yates

appeared with his tiger seven days a week in a public housing apartment in

New York. Not only did he keep a tiger as a roommate, he kept a five-foot-

long alligator.

Yes, he`s a dork, but the people who lived in the apartment complex

are also dorks. Can the super please send me the addresses and names of

these people? JESSE VENTURA`S AMERICA, here`s a note. Anything outside of

a dog, cat, gerbil, bunny, rabbit, guinea pig, hamster, turtle, or goldfish

is not a household pet. OK.

Thanks to our guests, Representative Charles Rangel, Kathy McKee, Luz

Sarmina-Gutierrez, and thanks to you at home for watching JESSE VENTURA`S

AMERICA.

And remember, my Minnesota Twins lost. They are out of the playoffs.

I`m now cheering for the Chicago Cubs. When you lose your team, you got to

pick up -- you got to pick up somebody else, and I`ll tell you what, I`ve

got one of Sammy Sosa`s bats he gave me personally, he autographed it. And

believe me, there is no cork in it. I`ve checked it.

Anyway, good night to all of you, keep an eye out for those dorks.

And remember, I`m Jesse Ventura and this is JESSE VENTURA`S AMERICA, where

we will make you think. You may not always agree with me, but I will make

you think about it. Thank you.

END

[gubamyster]

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The Ventura Update

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FYI!

This weekend on Jesse Ventura's America (Saturday, 7pm ET, 6CTL, 5 MTN and 4PAC):


Jesse welcomes author and radio talk show host Richard Marcinko-THE ROGUE WARRIOR-to the show.

Richard Marcinko is recognized as one of the nation's most accomplished special operations experts, with over 30 years of experience in intelligence , diplomacy, counter-terrorism, and special operations. His SEAL Team experiences are recounted in his autobiography, Rogue Warrior and the subsequent Rogue Warrior fiction series.

While commanding RED CELL, Marcinko used his teams' expertise as Navy SEALs to test the Navy's anti-terrorist capabilities. The result: RED CELL infiltrated supposedly impenetrable US military bases, weapons storage areas, aircraft carriers, nuclear submarines, and other "secure areas". As Red Cell penetrated bases and took hostages, Marcinko's unit ran roughshod over would be defenders. Nothing was immune to RED CELL's "terrorist attacks", not even the President's jet, Air Force One.

Over his thirty-year naval career, Richard Marcinko worked his way from enlisted man to the rank of captain. During his early years, Marcinko joined the UDTs (Underwater Demolition Teams), and served as a Navy SEAL during the war in Vietnam. While serving 2 tours in Vietnam, Marcinko won the Silver Star, four bronze stars with combat V, two Navy Commendation Medals, and the Vietnamese Cross of Gallantry with Silver Star. Marcinko's SEAL platoon became such an enemy killing force, that the Viet Cong posted a reward of 50,000 piasters for his death.

Jesse and Marcinko will talk about Homeland Security, the hunt for Bin Laden and Saddam, and a host of other national security issues.

We'll also be talking about the MEDIA-one of Jesse's favorite topics. Our guests are TBD as of now, but expect a wonk and someone from one of the national tabloid TV shows.

Why does the Media sensationalize stories? Does the Media create stories? Why oh why do we get 24/7, down-your-throat coverage of stories like Kobe Bryant, Laci Peterson, Rush Limbaugh, J-Lo and Ben Affleck and so on.

We're still looking for good Heroes and Dorks of the Week. If you've seen a hero or dork in the news, drop us an e-mail, ventura@msnbc.com . Please include a news story link if possible.

FINALLY, A TEASE FOR NEXT WEEK (10/24) ROCKER TED NUGENT AND AUTHOR BARR MCCLENNAN, "HOW LBJ KILLED JFK." BARR IS THE FATHER OF SCOTT MCCLENNAN, PRESIDENT BUSH'S PRESS SECRETARY.

See you Saturday!

[Joe Hadenuf]

It seems the taking heads just figured out the entire country is being over run with illegals that could give a rats ass about our laws....While they are continuing this endless talk about illegals, thousands more a entering, laughing at all of us while defecating on our laws.... Stupid American's.......

Anyone seen Bush or Tom Ridge?

[At _War_With_Liberals]

Who?

[jmc813]

FINALLY, A TEASE FOR NEXT WEEK (10/24) ROCKER TED NUGENT AND AUTHOR BARR MCCLENNAN, "HOW LBJ KILLED JFK." BARR IS THE FATHER OF SCOTT MCCLENNAN, PRESIDENT BUSH'S PRESS SECRETARY.

Cool! I'll definitely be tuning into that.

[gubamyster]

MCKEE: ... Look at this. This is our application for welfare in Arizona. It says on here in big, bold letters -- you must tell us your immigration status, but in big, bold letters, we will not report this information to the INS. Citizens they arrest for welfare fraud. Our welfare department will not report these people to the INS....

SARMINA-GUTIERREZ: State employees are not in the immigration enforcement business. They are in the state employees business. And you`re asking them to now become enforcers. That`s impossible.

I am really getting tired of this ridiculously disingenuous argument. If I am a teller in a bank and somebody comes in to rob me, this guy is saying that I have no obligation to call the police or report the crime. It is not OK for me to say “it’s not my money let the robber take it and it's not part of my job description to report crime.”

That is exactly what this guy is advocating for these government agencies. As an employee of a company or government agency, it is your obligation to safeguard the company’s assets, to verify that the person making a withdrawal is taking money from the proper account, to ensure the person has sufficient funds to withdraw, to report crime when you become aware of it, and to perform due diligence to prevent fraud. This “it’s not my job, dude” attitude does not wash.

[Joe Hadenuf]

Who?

Huh?

[JustPiper]

Thursday: Arnold changing law?
How Arnold Schwarzenegger could impact the Constitutional Law that prevents foreigners from becoming U.S. President. Scarborough Country, 10 p.m. ET and 2am

[JustPiper]

Anyone seen Bush or Tom Ridge?

Nope!

[RockyMtnMan]

We should provide a 6 Month amnesty to all employeers who use illegal labor. After six months they should face fines and jail time if they still employ illegals. During the six months they would be required to identify the illegals to the INS for deportation. If they fail to identify illegals during this time after the grace period then they should be fined or jailed if it is discovered they used illegal labor.

The problem stems from our willingness to employ illegals. If they know there are no jobs/benefits for them here they will either not cross the border into the US or they will go home. Corporate America is more to blame than the government, they empower illegals by providing them an income illegally.

[DumpsterDiver]

Ol' Luz Sarmina-Gutierrez is a real piece of work:

VENTURA: But wait, but wait, Luz. I -- that`s great, but the problem is they are illegal.

SARMINA-GUTIERREZ: What does that have to do with it?

VENTURA: Well then, Luz, how do you get them if it`s already on the books, how do you get them to enforce it then?

SARMINA-GUTIERREZ: Change the laws.

[moehoward]

Not an "amnesty".

A 3 to 6 month "grace period" to get there houses in order.
This should apply to Illegals themselves as well, a grace period to vacate.

At the end of the grace period. The hammer comes down in the form of asset forfeiture, fines and jail time.

After a few are made examples of, the rest will fall in line quickly.

[FITZ]

I would bet if millions of Americans were moving into her country and demanding everything be in English and that Mexicans pay for their health care, Sarmina Gutierrez would be outraged.

[Catalonia]

They are paying more taxes than they are actually receiving in benefits, by $100 million more.

That is flat out impossible. Illegals are overwhelmingly poor, and the poor pay NOTHING in income taxes. And many do not contribute payroll taxes either if they are working under the table.

That leaves sales taxes, and the amount of sales tax generated from a $20000 income is very little, particularly since much of it will go towards food, a non-taxed item.

What a load of B.S. ....

[Pro-Bush]

We`ve got $87 billion for Iraq, but we can`t seem to find a few bucks to enforce our own immigration laws. It`s about time we get our act together and help our states with this very serious problem.

Jesse is right on target!

[Graybeard58]

"my point being, doesn`t this
do a disservice to every other immigrant who went through it the proper way

and filled out the forms, did everything legal to come to this country?

Doesn`t this undermine and virtually say to them, well, tough luck to you"?


...Few things to me are more moving than to watch new citizens being sworn in. Some of these folks cry with joy at receiving their citizenship. They have worked so hard for so long, studying our history and customs and learning what for many is a difficult language (Difficult for me and I was born here) Every illegal in this country is slapping these fine people in the face just by being here.

[Iscool]

bump

[Amerigomag]

They are paying more taxes than they are actually receiving in benefits, by $100 million more.

Here is the big lie that Ventura swallowed hook, line and sinker.

Any citizen who pays only a consumption tax in a state with multipul revenus streams can't pay for the cost of the services they consume and enjoy. It's simply impossible.

The lier has couched her terms. She is at best only refering to the barest essentials of Arizona's saftey net which is not large by California standards.

Taking into account the cost of public education, public health, public transportation and public saftey even the average taxpayer, contributing revenue from several streams (consumption, income and use) doesn't cover their own costs. That's why there are coporate taxes and liscensing fees to name but two non personal revenue streams required to run a government.

Someone needs to contact Ventura and point out the obvious before he enters into the next round of dialogue with the dark side.