Stone Of Destiny - Stone Of Scone - Stonel Tea Tephi - Lia Fail

Moreshand.com ^ | 1983 | Bertrand L. Comparet

[birg]

"By the time the 12 tribes were conquered and expelled from the Holy Land (7th and 6th Centuries BC), the proto-Celts had settled a large portion of Western and Central Europe, with some Celts also living in Turkey and the proto-Germans had established their territory in northern Germany and Scandinavia, with some possibly in Ukraine.""

Does this make it impossible for any link between the 10 tribes absorbed into Assyria and the early Celts?
Did the Assyrians allow the 10 tribes to have the freedom of maintaining their bloodlines pure?

[Wallace T.]

The state of New York has a large number of communities named after places in Italy and Greece: Rome, Utica, Syracuse, Attica, for example. Italian-Americans are the largest single ethnic group in that state, which also has several hundred thousand people of Greek descent. Would it be correct to assume that their ancestors named these cities? Of course not. The names were given to the communities by English-American (Yankee in the original sense) pioneers who settled New York over a century prior to large scale immigration from Italy and Greece. Those cities were so named because of the Yankee settlers' admiration for the classical civilization of those nations.

There is likewise no reason to assume the occurrence of "Dan" or a variant thereof in various places in Europe is evidence of a connection with Israel or another area of the Middle East.

[Wallace T.]

With regard to the effect of shipwrecked Spanish sailors on the Irish population, several facts must be remembered. First, many Irishman hunted down the survivors and either killed them or turned them over to the English, according to the historical record. Second, many of Spain's sailors came from Galicia in northwest Spain, an area inhabited by Celtic kinsmen of the Irish. Galicians are as a rule fairer in hair and eye color and complection than other Spaniards. Any Galician survivors of the Armada ships would not have been too different in appearance from the native Irish. Third, there were only a few hundred survivors of the Armada. Even if none were killed upon landing, their cumulative effect on a nation that had over a million people would have been negligible.

The "Black Irish" and the brunet populations in Britain cannot be explained by an event in the 16th Century that had minimal effect on the Irish gene pool and none on the British. Travellers from the Meditteranean in prehistoric, ancient, and medieval times and pre-Celtic and pre-Germanic inhabitants of the British Isles are more likely the reason for the dark appearance of a few English, some Scots and Irish, and many Welsh.

[blam]

"There is likewise no reason to assume the occurrence of "Dan" or a variant thereof in various places in Europe is evidence of a connection with Israel or another area of the Middle East."

Yeah, I recognize that I'm not making a good argument and no proof, I think a person schooled in linguistics would understand a possible connection. In a few years DNA will solve all the riddles

I find this almost unbelieveable.

Cheddar Man

[Ditter]

I saw the Stone of Scone when it was in the chair in WestMinister Abbey. I was not aware of all this history past England & Scotland. Its a pretty ordinary looking rock to have been hauled all that distance back before motor freight.

[Just mythoughts]

Based upon what tid bit of historical writings can you claim Ham went to Africa? I cannot find anything in the Word that even comes close to making Ham the father of the Egyptians

The Tower of Babel which you seek to make the dispersal of people was long before Abraham, and THAT PROMISE.

Those 12 tribes were distinct individuals, and each was given a distinct blessing. Abraham was told that his seed would be as numerous as the sands of the shore and stars in the heavens, ever tried counting either.

Personally I don't care what you believe, but I will respond when you put forth "JUNK" to disprove cause it is not PC to even consider.

Don't you consider it just a least bit telling that Christ first instruction was to go to but the lost sheep of the house of Israel and just who the "free" blessed nations of this day are?

This is not about a super race, cause if one reads about those children of Israel, they were stubborn, stiffneck and would not listen, but that promise to Abraham still holds to this day.

[blam]

"Its a pretty ordinary looking rock to have been hauled all that distance back before motor freight."

Presumably the trip from the Middle East to Ireland would have been by sea...Maersk Lines or such, ahem.

[Ditter]

Of course, what was I thinking.

[birg]

Based upon what tid bit of historical writings can you claim Ham went to Africa? I cannot find anything in the Word that even comes close to making Ham the father of the Egyptians

There is absolutely no evidence that Hamitic descendants
settled in Asia or Europe hence Africa was their main location..
Ham had a descendant called Mizraim connected to Egypt i believe

[Wallace T.]

You state, "I cannot find anything in the Word that even comes close to making Ham the father of the Egyptians."

One of the sons of Ham, listed in Genesis 10:6, was Mizraim, which is also the customary name for Egypt in the Bible. Psalm 105:23 states, "Israel also came into Egypt; and Jacob sojourned in the land of Ham." Your statement is therefore incorrect.

You state, "The Tower of Babel which you seek to make the dispersal of people was long before Abraham and THAT PROMISE."

I said in post #39, "However, the Tower of Babel event and the subsequent dispersion of humanity began well before 2000 BC, the approximate date of the birth of Abraham, the founder of the Jewish nation." You are disputing a point with which I do not disagree.

You say, "Those 12 tribes were distinct individuals, and each was given a distinct blessing."

Genesis 49 lists the blessings given to the sons of Jacob. These characteristics passed onto the tribes that the 12 brothers founded. Because, say, Zebulon was described in Genesis 49:13 as living near the sea and seafaring, and the Dutch also have these same characteristics does not prove in itself that Zebulon was the ancestor of the Dutch nation.

You state, "Don't you consider it just a least bit telling that Christ first instruction was to go to but the lost sheep of the house of Israel and just who the "free" blessed nations of this day are?"

Were Christ's reference to the Ten Lost Tribes and were Anglo-Israelism true, why didn't He carry out His ministry in the British Isles and other parts of northern Europe rather than confine it just to Palestine? There is no Biblical evidence to indicate that Jesus left the Holy Land, except for His flight to Egypt with Mary and Joseph to escape the hands of King Herod.

The promise to Abraham that his descendants would be as numerous as the stars in the heavens and the sands is fulfilled through the Christian church in the present age. I Peter 2:9 states, in reference to the church, "But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people." Note that the "holy nation" is a term applied to national Israel in Deuteronomy 14:2 and 26:19. Paul describes the church as "the Israel of God" in Galatians 6:16. He further states in Romans 9:6 that "they are not all Israel who are of Israel."

In the New Covenant, or the church age, membership in the Christian church, sometimes called spiritual Israel, the bride of Christ, or the Mystical Body of Christ, has nothing to do with nationality or ancestry, whether Jewish or Germanic/Celtic. Jesus' last words before His ascension into heaven, are given in Acts 1:7-8 and include the command that His disciples were to be witnesses "to the uttermost part of the earth."

It is by grace through faith, and not on the basis of ancestry, whether real or ficticious, that Christians can lay claim to the promises of God. "What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith. But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone." (Romans 9: 30-32) Paul further indicated that in God's Kingdom, there is neither slave nor free, Jew nor Gentile. Revelation 9:9 describes heaven as being filled with a great multitude of all nations, peoples, tribes, and tongues.

You state, "Personally I don't care what you believe."

Perhaps you shouldn't, at that. However, you should care for the clear teaching of Scripture, which is: "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

[B-Chan]

Ham had a descendant called Mizraim connected to Egypt i believe

In Arabic the word for Egypt is al-Misr, and a similar word is used in Hebrew to refer to Egypt.

[night reader]

I believe in the Genesis account of the dispersal... the descendants of Ham migrated to Africa... Japheth to Europe... The Semitic and Indo-European language families are clearly different in vocabulary and grammar, and their sepration occured at the Tower of Babel.

May I ask the origins of the Oriental peoples? Although the Latter-day Saints do not have an official position in the matter, many (not all) believe the Asians to be Japhethites and subscibe to some variation of the British-Israel theory for the origins of the northern Europeans.

[scouse]

Here are a few notes from Lewis and Clark's expedition. There appears to have been some form of leprechaun in S.Dak'.

August 24, 1804 John Ordway Back about 2 miles we are informed that their is a verry high hill called Hills of the little Devils by the natives & they amagan that it is inhabited by little people with Big heads & they are afraid to go up to them for fear they will shoot them with their Bows & arrows,

August 25, 1804 William Clark

In a northerley derection from the Mouth of this Creek in an emence Plain a high Hill is Situated, and appears of a Conic form, and by the different nations of Indians in this quarter is Suppose to be the residence of Deavels. that they are in human form with remarkable large heads, and about 18 Inches high, that they are very watchfull and are arm'd with Sharp arrows with which they Can Kill at a great distance; they are Said to kill all persons who are So hardy as to attempt to approach the hill; ... So Much do the Maha, Soues, Ottoes and other neighbouring nations believe this fable, that no Consideration is Suffecient to induce them to approach the hill.

William Clark

Capt. Lewis & Myself concluded to go and See the Mound which was Viewed with Such turror by all the different Nations in this quarter, ... our Dog was so Heeted and fatigued we was obliged [to] Send him back to the Creek, ... Capt. Lewis much fatigued ...

One evidence which the Inds give for believeing this place to be the residence of some unusial Sperits is that they frequently discover a large assemblage of Birds about this Mound [this] is in my opinion a Sufficent proof to produce in the Savage Mind a Confident belief of all the properties which they ascribe [to] it.

[William Terrell]

How do you read this prophesy:

Hosea 1:10,11

10 Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered; and it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people, there it shall be said unto them, Ye are the sons of the living God.

11 Then shall the children of Judah and the children of Israel be gathered together, and appoint themselves one head, and they shall come up out of the land: for great shall be the day of Jezreel.

[P.O.E.]

Thanks for the ping & the post.

IMHO, the tradition lives on in the "bard's chair", such as that awarded to those with "the gift" at the Eisteddfod in Wales and elsewhere.

[Just mythoughts]

"CLEAR TEACHING OF SCRIPTURE"

First and foremost that is a requirement.

Ignoring and overlooking scripture won't cut it either.

Now have you studied much in to the "Shepherd" kings of Egypt? Egypt was divided into upper and lower thus Ham "MIZRAIM" was indeed part of EGYPT but not the same as the "egyptians" you claim.

What most Christians ignore and overlook is the plan of the line in which Christ was to come through and how at every possible time the "serpent", the "devil" sought to destroy that line. Some in the flesh like, Judah was seduced by what he thought was a harlot to follow that PLAN. You have overlooked exactly that very foundation set forth from Genesis 1:1 forward. There are two days of creation, oh I know that most "modern" Christians refuse to acknowledge that but hey to each his own. What was the reason for the flood, and how it is and why it is that certain individuals were "elected" to fulfill a DUTY. Jeremiah has so much to offer one, our Heavenly Father told him, "Before I formed thee in the belly I KNEW THEE: So is Jeremiah the only one that was know before that forming and what exactly is placed in the flesh that our Heavenly Father also said to fear Him who could destroy not only the FLESH but the "SOUL"

So now this leads to some very interesting questions just when was that "SOUL" created? Maybe if Christians looked a little deeper they could answer why our Heavenly Father said "JACOB" I loved and ESAU I hated while in their mother's womb. This was said in the old and new.

Now Paul told us that these things happened as "ENSAMPLES" (examples) for our admonition (warning) as to how they would be at the end of this FLESH age. You know, a play being replayed, like Christ said "I HAVE FORETOLD YOU ALL THINGS".

I do not claim or have I claimed that Zebulon is modern Dutch.

Now you brought forth the Tower of Babel, and apparently you missed what the point was of the "BABEL". Why was the Tower built, seems to me it was FLESH MAN decided to build their own plan of salvation.

Again "Jacob" was given the blessing and his brother sold out his "birthright". So just who is modern day Esau?

Esau was to play a big role according to prophecy and somehow I never hear most Christians ever discussing who modern day Esau is and what he is doing today. Why is that? Somebody is doing a whole bunch of ignoring and overlooking roles these people are to play.

By the way it was their system of governance that our Heavenly Father hated, with some of the most admired Christians around the world can be found in some of the places.

Now way back in Genesis, "In the beginning", we are told about Adam and EVE sewing together "FIG" leaves to cover their nakedness, Jeremiah talks about good and bad "FIGS" and Christ himself told us to LEARN the Parable of the FIG Tree and Christ CURSED the FIG TREE. Pretty deep subject for most Christians.

Where exactly did John take Mary the mother of Christ? Also Joseph the "TIN" man the uncle of Christ whose right it was claimed the body of Christ. Now you do a little looking as to where Joseph had his "TIN" mines.

The "chosen", the "elect" the "set aside ones", "remnant" and other references are to those whose duty it is to fulfill that role chosen at the foundation. Paul has a bit to say about that as well. Oh, and Peter he has a thing or two to say about the "world that then was" and the "world now" and "one to come". Now that word "world" speaks to "AGE". So there was an AGE prior to "FLESH" man, and at the end of this "FLESH" AGE there will be another AGE.

You are correct that all can come to Christ "IF". The NEW Covenant, was the ending of "BLOOD" sacrifice, one and for all time. Christ became that sacrifice and when that veil was rent in the temple from "TOP" to "BOTTOM" access was given to the indidvidual without having to have a blood letting, repentence was what is required. Christ also became our "sabbath" we are to be in him everyday not just one day a week.

The "LAW" was never done away with as some like to claim just the "rituals" of blood letting. The law was a schoolmaster and not one of us have live with out breaking it in some matter or fashion. That is why we are given the opportunity to repent. Now there are some sins that cannot be ignore here in this flesh life, such as "MURDER".

Promises that were made are in fact being kept, no matter the majority who has never been right understands or even tries to follow those footsteps. As a matter of fact they happen in spite of what most believe, preach and adhere to.


Now those of Israel were given duties and responsibilities and since they would not listen, were sottish, stiffnecked a majority are still trying to build that Tower of Babel, their way to salvation, their own rememberance of who they were and their own footsteps was wiped out of the minds.

But hey prophecy is prophecy and it was WRITTEN what would take place. Look up all the places where the question that Christ would ask "HAVE YOU NOT READ" and go to where HE sent us to READ. All of the New Testment writers kept sending us back to the PLAYBOOK so we would have an idea, an understanding of what is to come. Christ Himself was asked what would be going on prior to His return, you can find that in Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke 21. Oh, ever hear of the 7 TRUMPS/SEALS/etc.

Now there are 7 churches described in the last book of the WORD, and each is told their status and only two are found with no fault, where does your church fit?

So for most it does not matter where those children ended up, yet they do in fact reap the blessings promised so many years ago and I for one know that those "blessings" are given "IF". I don't take that "IF" lightly or for granted. I know that this nation that recognized that it is our HEAVENLY FATHER who gives "RIGHTS" not man or governments is the "BENCHMARK" that keeps those blessings upon US.

So anyone who seeks to use or abuse being of those tribes, that goes against the WORD, do so in ignorance and deception, however there are some who know the truth and it sure as hell is not about being a "SUPER RACE" or "SPECIAL" to our Heavenly Father cause He said in the beginning he created all people and it was "GOOD".

Now the "CHURCH" is suppose to be the body of Christ and there is not a sudden change in direction of what Christ taught. He was spoken of in Genesis, reason EVE was the mother of all "LIVING", through her Christ was to come.

I have not once claimed grace or faith as a basis of ancestry, rather the ancestry gives proof of that promise to Abraham and to those 12 which is still in effect this day. Christ Himself not flesh man will rejoin those two houses as it is written.

Deception was the first and major warning Christ gave and Paul himself spent quite a bit of time talking about being deceived and even brought forth "EVE" as one who was "holy seduced", so some cannot see the difference from physical deception to spriritual deception which goes to the core of what the Church is to be aware of and teach, just who it is that deceives, and exactly what the "DECEPTION IS".

[Just mythoughts]

Sorry about all typos, but I think you get the message.

[blam]

In the US, there are also numerous reports (in the early days) of the discovery of very tall human skeletons and the sculls contained double rows of teeth.

[scouse]

On the local (FL.)news last week they reported that had found a skeleton, which was judged to be over 8000 years old. I have since heard no more concerning the find.