Replies

These scum should be tried before a military court martial, not the kind of civilian courts which are tied up in twisted legal semantics and pass judegement in the States.

Well your argument goes against everything the US supposedley stand for Freedom, Justice for all. Your views are that of a totalarian state and I suggest you think a little before writing, or if this is not possible at least take a deep breath.

This is directly opposed to the systematic attacks like those launched on Israeli civilians killed by Palestinian lunatics in malls, on buses, etc. Or, I might add, on Christian Copts, Christian Nigerians, Animist Nigerians, Christian and Animist Sudanese, Iranian Bahais, Hindus, Buddhists, Zoroastrians, Sikhs, and other individuals who aren't Muslim in any country where Islam is the dominate belief system.

Maybe you forget Sabra and Shatila, where even the Israeli government blamed Sharon for the slaughter of innocents.

Maybe you forget the Innocents murdered in Ireland over the last fifty years, as they were Christians and that does not happen, even though the murders were supported by funds given directly from the USA.

Maybe you forget

Timothy Mcveigh, who sounds very much like your own profile, white, male, Christian and right wing, and all the innocents that died that day.

Maybe you forget the persecution of Jews in the Spanish Inquisition. The Inquisition has its origin in the earliest beliefs of the Church, that Judaism was an abomination and a rejection of G-d's chosen one.

From the earliest Jewish settlement in Spain to 1480, the number of converted Jews who were burnt at the stake by the Church were relatively few.

In 1478 the Church authorized a powerful Church/State national Inquisition which would operate throughout Spain under the direction of Catholic monarches, Ferdinand and Isabella. Commencing in Seville in 1481, and later in other cities after trials, seven hundred conversos were burnt at the stake and by 1488 many thousands were tortured, punished, humiliated and others were reconciled to the church.

The Inquisition continued for another years as did the autos de fe (burnings of unrepentant conversos at public spectacles), other punishment and confiscations of converso property. (converso = Jew forcilbly converted to Christianity)

A belief system which systematically degrades women, persecutes non-believers

Maybe you forget that the Jews lived in Spain in harmony with the Muslims and after the Inquisition, the Jews that managed to escape, went to north Africa and Palistine and were welcomed and allowed to practive their faith.

With regard to your comment on degrading women, pornographic material is not allowed under Islam, but I am sure you can telll me the value this industry is to the US economy?!

What was the rape total in the USA last year?

What was the total of violent assaults againts women in the US last year?

What was the divorce rate in the USA last year?

Muslims do not believe in pre-marital sex, they believe in the sanctity or marriage.

What was the rate of under age pregnancies last year in the USA?

I am sure if you could supply Freepers with all this information, the entire Muslim world figures for the same questions and period, would not be even be on the graph in comparison, and there are 1.5 billion Muslims.

So I suggest you read a little, before trying to express your biggoted views.

I understand the US is a new country and with only a few hundred years of power under its belt, which incidently was achieved by destroying the original occupiers, men, women and children.

Then they brought over the slaves and treated them like animals and even up till late last century they still treated the blacks like second class or even third class citizens.

Well if you treat a man like an animal for long enough, he will act like one.

Therefore the USA, is hardly in a position to pontificate to the rest fo the world on how it should be done.

The USA should be quite on certain issues (like little boys and girls, that should be seen and not heard) and maybe it will learn on how things should be done and mature into a respectable nation. Insh allah

"These scum should be tried before a military court martial, not the kind of civilian courts which are tied up in twisted legal semantics and pass judegement in the States."

'Well your argument goes against everything the US supposedley stand for Freedom, Justice for all. Your views are that of a totalarian state and I suggest you think a little before writing, or if this is not possible at least take a deep breath.'

WRONG. We have used military tribunals to handle nutcases in the past - Nuremberg comes to mind. Piracy was tried in England in Admiralty Courts, not in the civilian couirts. There are a host of precedents here and in other nations where alternate methods of determining the guilt or innocence of an accused are employed in situations like this.

"This is directly opposed to the systematic attacks like those launched on Israeli civilians killed by Palestinian lunatics in malls, on buses, etc. Or, I might add, on Christian Copts, Christian Nigerians, Animist Nigerians, Christian and Animist Sudanese, Iranian Bahais, Hindus, Buddhists, Zoroastrians, Sikhs, and other individuals who aren't Muslim in any country where Islam is the dominate belief system."

'Maybe you forget Sabra and Shatila, where even the Israeli government blamed Sharon for the slaughter of innocents.'

I'm not familiar with those incidents. However, isolated cases like those you mention hardly counterbalance the overwhelming record of intolerance and persecution practised by Islamic states towards non-believers which continues up to this very hour.

"Maybe you forget the Innocents murdered in Ireland over the last fifty years, as they were Christians and that does not happen, even though the murders were supported by funds given directly from the USA."

The situation in Ireland is as much political as it is religious and the IRA is hardly a Christian organization, being composed of extremist left-wing elements which have a record of working hand in hand with Islamic terrorist cells. The USA never provided funds to the IRA, just some individual idiot American citizens who should know better and who should be prosecuted when caught - again in military courts.

"Maybe you forget
Timothy Mcveigh, who sounds very much like your own profile, white, male, Christian and right wing, and all the innocents that died that day."

Timothy McVeigh was an aberration. Also, there is strong evidence McVeigh was tied in with, or at least consorted with Middle Eastern elements in western American states, possibly agents of Saddam or Iran. At any rate, I haven't heard anyone from America's right wing defending him or issuing qualifying statements like "It was wrong he did it, but ...." as in the case of Islamic commentators on 9-11. Further, McVeigh and his actions were clearly denounced by any and every Christian and Christian clergyman in the U.S., unlike the waffling and dodging by Islamic clerics and officials over the frequent terrorist acts of Muslims.

"Maybe you forget the persecution of Jews in the Spanish Inquisition. The Inquisition has its origin in the earliest beliefs of the Church, that Judaism was an abomination and a rejection of G-d's chosen one."

THAT was a long time ago. Want to discuss the Assassins and the "Old man of the Mountain"?? How about Mehmed the "Great" and his sack of Constantinople?? This is all ancient history. What we are discussing here is the now and present state of things. Christianity has advanced with time, while Islam has regressed.

"From the earliest Jewish settlement in Spain to 1480, the number of converted Jews who were burnt at the stake by the Church were relatively few."

So????

"In 1478 the Church authorized a powerful Church/State national Inquisition which would operate throughout Spain under the direction of Catholic monarches, Ferdinand and Isabella. Commencing in Seville in 1481, and later in other cities after trials, seven hundred conversos were burnt at the stake and by 1488 many thousands were tortured, punished, humiliated and others were reconciled to the church."

Again, ancient history.

"The Inquisition continued for another years as did the autos de fe (burnings of unrepentant conversos at public spectacles), other punishment and confiscations of converso property. (converso = Jew forcilbly converted to Christianity)"

More ancient history.

"A belief system which systematically degrades women, persecutes non-believers"

'Maybe you forget that the Jews lived in Spain in harmony with the Muslims and after the Inquisition, the Jews that managed to escape, went to north Africa and Palistine and were welcomed and allowed to practive their faith.'

Yeah, again ancient history. But even then everything wasn't peaches and cream for Jews or Christians in Islamic lands - they couldn't openly practise their religion, bear arms, testify in court against a Muslim, had to wear degrading identifying dress, couldn't hold office, couldn't build new houses of worship, couldn't repair existing houses of worship, etc. etc.

"With regard to your comment on degrading women, pornographic material is not allowed under Islam, but I am sure you can telll me the value this industry is to the US economy?!"

I am not going to defend pornography - its indefensible. However, women who participate in it do so willingly, and the overwhelming number of American women would never pose in pornography. In Islam, the Sharia laws are forced on women, their actions are strictly controlled by the males in the society and they are denied all the basic rights - the few allowed under Sharia - which are granted to male Muslims.

"What was the rape total in the USA last year?"

I don't know. How many women in Islamic countries were raped or forced into unwanted marriages (basically the same thing)??

"What was the total of violent assaults againts women in the US last year?"

Again. I don't know - you tell me. But if you do, be prepared to present corresponding figures for Islamic countries, which of course, you can't, as statics like that are not kept there.

"What was the divorce rate in the USA last year?"

Too high. Divorce is wrong except in certain limited circumstances. So is abortion. The U.S. isn't perfect, but its a da@mned sight better than any Islamic Country.

"Muslims do not believe in pre-marital sex, they believe in the sanctity or marriage."

So do fundamentalist Protestants, Catholics and Orthodox Christians and me.

"What was the rate of under age pregnancies last year in the USA?"

Again too many. But what does that have to do with this subject??

"I am sure if you could supply Freepers with all this information, the entire Muslim world figures for the same questions and period, would not be even be on the graph in comparison, and there are 1.5 billion Muslims."

Like I said, I know Islamic Countries don't keep figures like this. How many people were stoned to death, beheaded, whipped, tortured or mutilated in Islamic Countries??

"So I suggest you read a little, before trying to express your biggoted views."

My views aren't bigoted, they are based on an historical and current investigation of Islam and its impact in Islamic countries and the words of Muslim Clerics and the Quran and Haddiths, and my knowledge of things like Wahhabism, the Islamic Brotherhood, etc.

"I understand the US is a new country and with only a few hundred years of power under its belt, which incidently was achieved by destroying the original occupiers, men, women and children."

Oh? And what happened to the non-Muslim occupants of Anatolia, the Middle East, North Africa, Iran, etc?? They were forcibly converted, driven out or exterminated. People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw bricks.
But again, ancient history.

"Then they brought over the slaves and treated them like animals and even up till late last century they still treated the blacks like second class or even third class citizens."

REALLY??? The Muslims were the world's biggest slave traders. Slavery existed longer in Islamic Coountries than anywhere else, and as a matter of fact, probably still does, or so it is reported in the papers for southern Sudan. The U.S. more than atoned for slavery. It fought a long and bitter Civil War to eliminate it.

"Well if you treat a man like an animal for long enough, he will act like one."

Yes. So????

"Therefore the USA, is hardly in a position to pontificate to the rest fo the world on how it should be done."

The U.S is the most open, pluralistic, tolerant societies in the world. Maybe you should go there and see for yourself. If the rest of the world was as tolerant as we are, it would be a better place.

"The USA should be quite on certain issues (like little boys and girls, that should be seen and not heard) and maybe it will learn on how things should be done and mature into a respectable nation. Insh allah>"

If the Muslims don't move into the twenty-first century, the result will be a world wide war worse than WW2 which will destroy both Muslim and non-Muslim and possibly all life on this planet. Islamic nations will continue to live in a regressive, third world economic state. Islamic history had its high points - periods of time when it was a repository and disperser of science, culture and learning from the ancients which assisted the Europeans in moving forward. Unfortunately, the current generation of Islamic leaders - people like Arafat, Bin Laddin, Saddam, Mubarak, etc, are frozen in a regressive mindset. The opportunities for advancement of human society, knowledge and medicine are vast. Yet instead of using oil wealth to better their own people, provide education, create alternate economic possibilities to benefit their people, they waste their wealth on gold cadillacs, foreign women and weapons of aggression.