Humvee turned out to be death trap for U.S. troops

thesunlink.com ^ | September 17, 2003 | Jay Price

[Destro]

Humvee turned out to be death trap for U.S. troops

Jay Price

The Associated Press

September 17, 2003

AP photo by Chuck Liddy/The News & Observer - A FRIEND SAYS GOODBYE IN IRAQ: Army Spc. William Moore pays respects during a memorial service for his best friend, Sgt. Trevor Blumberg, at Base Mercury in Iraq. Blumberg, 22, of Canton, Mich., died Sunday in Baghdad, Iraq, when two explosive devices struck his vehicle.

WEST OF BAGHDAD, Iraq -- The Humvee in civilian trim is the macho brute of the American highway, but the military version has turned out to be a lightweight death trap on the roads of Iraq. On Monday, the day after a bomb killed one of their soldiers in a Humvee and wounded three, soldiers of the 1st Battalion of the 504th Parachute Infantry Regiment began outfitting dozens of the vehicles with homemade armor. They used sandbags and sand-filled boxes made of plywood and cardboard.

"We're using the Humvee in an unconventional way, and we're having to adapt the vehicle to the situation," said Sgt. 1st Class Mark Ferguson of Charlie Company, who was overseeing a crew of about a dozen soldiers building and installing the plywood boxes. "There are a lot of good things about the Humvee, but the lack of armor is a big concern," Ferguson said. "That's why we're working so hard to rectify it."

In other words, improvised explosive devices have led to improvised armored vehicles.

Fort Bragg's 82nd Airborne Division, to which the 504th belongs, is a quick-reaction assault force that travels by air then fights on foot. The occupation in Iraq, though, isn't about massive air assaults or parachute drops. Instead, it requires frequent security patrols. That means vehicles.

Like the 82nd Airborne, the Humvee wasn't meant for this mission.

Made by AM General in South Bend, Ind., the High Mobility Multipurpose Wheeled Vehicle was designed to replace the venerable Jeep. It weighs 5,200 pounds and can carry a 2,500-pound payload, roll through 5 feet of water and scale a 60-degree grade, according to its manufacturer. But it has thin body panels of fiberglass and aluminum.

The truck offers little protection from improvised roadside bombs and rocket-propelled grenades used to ambush U.S. troops.

[agitator]

In Somalia, they called them "Bummer(s)"

They were never meant to replace an APC

[Destro]

aside thought-that is one of the most moving photos I have ever seen. It needs to be reproduced in bronze as a memorial.

[dts32041]

You have that correct, they were meant to replace the jeep, and 5/4 ton weapons carrier.

Wonder what they would be doing if they still had these two vehicles, getting blown up faster, probably.

[Lurker]

In Nam they ended up using field expedient techniques to armor duece and a halfs with sandbags, armor plate, and .50 caliber machine guns.

But it sounds to me like they shouldn't be using Humvees near as much as they should be using Bradleys.

L

[sd-joe]

Would Stryker be better?

[agitator]

Probably, although from what I've seen, they're still having problems with the armor on those and they're still really designed for defense against small arms, not a couple of artillery shells 10 feet away.

[Russian Sage]

They were never meant to replace an APC

And APCs were never really meant to take direct hits from anti-armour weapons.

[observer5]

Sooooo, and why are they not travelling in armored vehicles?

I get it! That too far fetched.

[fourdeuce82d]

Anybody have any word on the level of protection afforded by the "Up-armored" hmvees" 7.62 WP, or what?

[txzman]

And what is the Israeli Army's No 1 suggestion for the US Army in Iraq? USE MORE ARMOR - they've learned the hard way.

[Destro]

Just by a 1,000 of these for the time being

[BBell]

When I was in the Marine Infantry we were taught to sandbag or vehicles and improvise any way we could to protect ourselfs if we ever went to war. We were supposed to do this before the battles started. Also when we went from Jeeps to HUMVEES we got the armoured variant (we were heavy guns) were as all the Army HUMVEES I see have the tell tell X on the door, indicating there not armoured.

[SJSAMPLE]

Army HMMWVs are being pressed into doing things they weren't meant to do. Army artillery units (and other units) are now patrolling Iraq in their unit's vehicles, which aren't armored. I know all of the USMCs HMMWVs aren't armored, and neither are the Army's. However, the sheer size of the mission is requiring all sorts of vehicles in the patrol role. These vehicles are sandbagged on the floors, which is only good against small AP mine fragmentation. ANY HMMWV would be torn to shit by mines and roadside bombs.

[Destro]

What about my idea of just purchasing 1,000 armored brinks cars as an interm solution till we have vehicles designed for it?

[Malsua]

Humvee bump

They definately aren't tanks, but they are exceptional vehicles. The fact that soldiers can pack in sandbags and whatnot to "armor" them up, says volumes. Both of my brothers spent many hours in humvees and loved the hell out of them. Granted, I'd rather be in a Bradley when driving over a homemade bomb, but otherwise, they are agile and very useful.

[Old Student]

I hated the Hummer, when I had to spend hours driving one in Germany, in the early-to-mid 90's. I think our guys would be better off in Peacekeepers, which are an armored Blazer, for all intents and purposes. The Air Force used them for patrol vehicles for base security folks. Don't know how many were built, and doubt their armor could defeat an RPG, but they would be worth checking out, I suppose.

[JSteff]

"In Nam they ended up using field expedient techniques to armor duece and a halfs with sandbags, armor plate, and .50 caliber machine guns.
But it sounds to me like they shouldn't be using Humvees near as much as they should be using Bradleys."

You are right. In 'Nam they were also putting sand bags on the floors on M114's. The problem was the extra weight was causing transmissions. This same problem will happen with the Humvee which has an automatic trans.
There are plenty of composite panels available that they could install that would have far less weight and better stopping power. Also fire resistent and moldable. A company in Israel specializes in making these type of panels.
It is close enough that they could bring them in quick.

[Malsua]

>>I hated the Hummer, when I had to spend hours driving one in Germany, in the early-to-mid 90's.<<

Well, I'll say this...When they drove from Ft Lewis to somewhere in CA to do some kind of war game, one of my brothers said he felt like he was kicked in the kidneys after the drive. But he said he was jazzed by driving over just about everything, in and out of gulleys and such. I think the agility and utility is what they loved.

I'm not saying there isn't a safer vehicle. I think however that adding light armor to the Humvee wouldn't adversely affect the agility while still upping safety for the soldiers. They could probably add more comfy seats in the process and save some backside aches and pains.

Of course, one brother was an M1A1 driver...he lights up just mentioning it. Total on the ground power projection with "go anywhere" style. Heh.

[boris]

I have the impression that one mode of attack is the "100 kilograms of C-4 in an old water heater buried in the road" trick they use on Israeli first-line tanks.

I don't think Hummers were designed for that sort of insult.

--Boris