$85,000 salaries: Teaching pays off

The Atlanta Journal-Constitution ^ | October 26, 2003 | D. AILEEN DODD

[Cincinatus' Wife]

In 2000, under the administration of Gov. Roy Barnes, Georgia's teacher pay jumped to 19th in the nation. Teachers averaged $41,122, just $700 below the national average. .....……..National test scores have not correlated with rising pay. Despite ranking 19th in teacher pay, Georgia is 50th in SAT scores.

A person with a degee in education is worthless to students.

"There was a time when educators' salaries were pitiful," Callahan said.

And there was a time when high school graduates were educated.

[HiTech RedNeck]

Are these $85K teachers TEACHING teachers, or are they actually administrative personnel like principals?

[Cincinatus' Wife]

I believe they mean classroom instrutors.

But I know what you mean. Check out this story also in the AJC.

October 26, 2003 - Chief of Fulton schools explains exit [Full Text] Amid questions from Fulton County parents Friday, former Superintendent John Haro insisted he abruptly quit at midweek because he missed his family in Minnesota.

He said he especially missed his son, who is a high school senior. "I just couldn't miss his senior year," Haro said in a telephone interview. "Certainly, we thought we could do it; it was just too hard."

The board emerged from a closed-door executive session Thursday night and voted unanimously with no discussion to accept Haro's resignation, feuling speculation that he had fallen out of favor with the board over personnel and other matters.

Haro was not at the meeting; he was in Minnesota. His tenure lasted less than five months.

The Fulton school district spent almost $70,000 on the search that brought Haro to Fulton in June. Haro declared Fulton "one of the country's great school districts," and board members introduced him with great fanfare.

He drew an annual salary of $185,000 as well as perks such as a $700-per-month car allowance and an additional $750 per month for "routine expenses" he did not have to document.

Laura Stowell, whose children attend Woodland Elementary Charter School and Sandy Springs Middle School, said she was disappointed and surprised that Haro quit.

"He didn't come across as a flighty doofus," she said. "He came across as someone who was very serious and professional. It had to be something significant to make him jump."

Some parents pointed to two recent promotions of African-American principals in south Fulton to assistant superintendent posts. The board approved the hires, recommended by Haro, on split votes.

Board member Zenda Bowie, who lives in south Fulton, said she could not comment on the specifics of Haro's departure because of legal issues. She acknowledged that Haro's personnel appointments attracted attention from south Fulton residents who have long complained they are not as well represented in top administrative posts as north Fulton. "Some people have that opinion," she said.

Haro said Friday he could understand parents' frustration over his resignation. He said board reaction to his personnel recommendations was not a factor.

Jennifer Klein, whose children attend Heards Ferry Elementary and Riverwood High schools, expressed disappointment that Haro's tenure was short-lived. "Sometimes, you just can't know," she said. "He was delightful and had what we needed. His focus was on the whole county, which is what everyone wants."

Rosaland Thomas, a south Fulton parent whose daughter attends Westlake High School, said she was glad to see Haro go. "We're trying to get a new high school built," she said, adding that Haro did not attend either of two meetings parents held to discuss their wishes. "We have not had a chance to be heard."

The board agreed to pay Haro up to $15,000 per month for the next three months, said Glenn Brock, the Fulton school board attorney whose law firm conducted the search that brought Haro to Fulton.

He said Fulton's contract with his firm entitles the board to a free search because Haro left in less than a year.

Board members said they had not talked about when to start looking for a permanent superintendent.

The board named Michael Vanairsdale, formerly an assistant superintendent, as acting superintendent. He will be paid $145,000 for leading the 71,000-student district.

Meanwhile, Haro, who got a compensation package of at least $237,000 when he left the suburban Rosemount-Apple Valley-Eagan school district, said he plans to take a year off before looking for a new job. [End]

[Pedantic_Lady]

Geeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeez. I was offered a teaching job by the DISD in 1997; if I had taught French, I would have earned $28,000 a year. If I had agreed to teach ESL courses (which I am not qualified to teach), I would have earned $31,000 a year. Substitute teachers made $50 a day back then, I think. Pathetic.

[Hacksaw]

You need to be at a public school and in a union to make the bucks. Private school teachers make very little (at least parochial ones). Ironically, 9 times out of 10 you get a better education at a private school.

[Pedantic_Lady]

The DISD stands for the Dallas Independent School District; they ARE public schools. Nobody said anything to me about joining a union when they offered me the job.

By the way, I disagree that you get a better education at private schools. We had some kids transfer in to my high school from private schools and god, were they ever stupid.

[dennisw]

I have relatives in the suburbs west of Philidelphia. Top teachers salaries are 90+ thousand.

This is way out of wack compared to the private sector especially when the vacations and benefits are figured in. They can get away with this in Pennsylvania, a heavily union state.

[cherry]

maybe they were kicked out of the private school for being stupid....

[LIBERTARIAN JOE]

"If there is any way to make some extra money, volunteer to do it," said Henry, who teaches gifted elementary students. "You have just got to keep looking at the pay schedule. [The top] should be your goal."

This guy shows up to "work" every day to work towards his goal of rising to the top of the pay scale... wonder where educating his students falls on his priority list?

[Pedantic_Lady]

I doubt it. Most private schools don't care how badly you do as long as your tuition check doesn't bounce. One of my childhood friends who lived on the same street as I did went to a swank private school while I was shipped off to the local public school. She flunked her way through high school and was never asked to leave. She's an investment banker now after going to Duke. I outscored her on the SAT by a full 300 points. She's no smarter than I am...her parents were just wealthier.

[cajungirl]

Individual personal stories are not a good substitute for decisions on big issues i.e. are private schools better than public. I do think private schools have a huge advantage in that they don't have to educate problem children, they can kick them out. And they don't have mandates to deal with. But there are plenty of terrible private schools, plenty. And the resources aren't there for big things as they are in public schools,,,labs, gyms, equipment etc. But on the whole, what they gain in order, discipline, parental involvement and a decent set of kids seems to give them a huge advantage to me. I would willingly send my kid to a less desirable school to have them get a normal life without a bunch of thugs and gangs and drugs, and to go to school with kids from good families.

[Pedantic_Lady]

Perhaps I was amazingly lucky, but I went to a public high school in Texas that didn't really have trouble with equipment; sure, we didn't have an indoor pool or clay tennis court like a nearby wealthy private school, but what the hell did we need with things like that, anyway?

Kids from my high school consistently outperformed their private school peers on standardized tests. Perfect scores on the math or verbal sections of the SAT occurred every single year I was a student there, though there's only been one student in the last 20 years to score perfect 800s on BOTH sections. Most private schools can't point to that many successes.

I was able to enter college as a sophomore because of all the college-level courses available at my high school: biology, art history, European history, psychology, advanced French and Spanish, advanced chemistry, physiology and anatomy, trigonometry, calculus, and calculus-based statistics.

That's a public school. Free. It was a bargain, and when I have children I hope to be lucky enough to live near such a quality institution.

[Flyer]

For Danny Cronic, whose $90,895 salary made him the highest-paid classroom teacher in the state last year. . .
Cronic, who teaches physical education. . .
"All I have ever done is just coach and teach," said Cronic, 57, who is exploring retiring after this school year

A P.E. teacher and coach earning $90,000 a year, retiring at 57. . . we're gonna go broke.

[Cincinatus' Wife]

Public schools are a brain drain. They've wasted millions of minds.

[pt17]

"There was a time when educators' salaries were pitiful," Callahan said.

Well, that's certainly true. Before I went into IS/computers in the late 60's, I was getting paid in the vicinity of $4000 per year teaching HS math, from freshman algebra to senior calculus. Upon leaving, I immediately tripled my salary and reduced my workday from 12 hours to 9.

And there was a time when high school graduates were educated.

You know, I loved teaching math and my students did well. I never had a student who took the NMSQT and scored an lower than in the top tenth percentile - most were in the 99th percentile (and I didn't teach for the test :-). The combination of low pay, unbelievable administrative ignorance and BS, NEA thuggery and my wife's having twins forced me to leave. For right or for wrong, I've never looked back.

[tkathy]

"All I have ever done is just coach and teach,"

Maybe semi-pro sports hysteria should be taken out of all public schools, or run by non teachers. Plus these part timers need to work year round like the rest of us peons.

[BushCountry]

Public schools are hit and miss, some good and some bad. As much as I hate to admit it, they are improving contary to what most believe.

However, that does not mean that are not extremly wasteful, corrupt, unnecessarily burden their teachers, underpay their teachers, create reams of nonsense paperwork, are heavily overstaff administratively, don't understand or effectively use technology, and the list goes on and on...

They are succeeding inspite of tremendous obstacles.

[Atlantian]

It costs $13,000 per student in the Atlanta public schools. And only 44% of 8th graders can do math at their grade level. Other test scores are just as bad.

If the teachers are earning so much money, why does Georgia have the lowest SAT scores in the country? What are these teachers teaching?

[Pedantic_Lady]

I agree that teachers are underpaid and have to deal with reams of paperwork, but I absolutely do NOT agree that public schools are extremely "corrupt." How are they corrupt?

[Cincinatus' Wife]

If the teachers are earning so much money, why does Georgia have the lowest SAT scores in the country? What are these teachers teaching?

They aren't. And to think, close to 50% of all state budgets go toward "eduation." That's our tax dollars going down the rat hole along with our childrens' and our country's future.