Two GIs Killed When Tank Attacked in Iraq

AP ^ | Wednesday October 29, 2003 10:46 AM

[konijn]

Two GIs Killed When Tank Attacked in Iraq

Wednesday October 29, 2003 10:46 AM

By SLOBODAN LEKIC

Associated Press Writer

BAGHDAD, Iraq (AP) - Two American soldiers were killed when their Abrams battle tank was damaged by resistance fighters, and seven Ukrainian troops were wounded in the first ambush of a multinational unit in the Polish sector south of Baghdad, coalition officials said Wednesday.

The tank was disabled when it was struck by a land mine or a roadside bomb Tuesday night during a patrol near Balad, 45 miles north of Baghdad, said Maj. Josslyn Aberle, a spokeswoman for the 4th Infantry Division. A third crewman was evacuated to a U.S. hospital in Germany, she said.

It was believed to be the first M1 Abrams main battle tank destroyed since the end of major combat May 1. During the active combat phase, several of the 68-ton vehicles - the mainstay of the U.S. Army's armored forces - were disabled in combat.

The latest attacks, including a nighttime mortar barrage in Baghdad, followed a day of violence in which insurgents targeted American forces and Iraqis who work with the occupation authorities. U.S. officials also announced that Baghdad's Deputy Mayor Faris Abdul Razzaq al-Assam was killed Sunday in a drive-by shooting.

The proliferation of attacks on Iraqis allied with the occupation bodes ill for attempts by the U.S.-led authorities to persuade more Iraqis to join in administering the country and play a greater role in providing security. Resistance forces have targeted several prominent figures, including Aquila al-Hashimi, a member of the Governing Council, who was fatally shot Sept. 20.

A spokesman for the multinational division at Camp Babylon said the attack on the Ukrainians occurred when two of their armored personnel carriers rolled over land mines near Suwayrah about 40 miles southeast of Baghdad.

After the vehicles were disabled, unidentified gunmen opened fire on the disembarked soldiers, the spokesman said on condition of anonymity.

About 1,650 Ukrainians are serving in the Polish-led stabilization force patrolling central and southern Iraq.

In Baghdad, half a dozen mortar rounds exploded late Tuesday in an upscale Jadriya neighborhood across the Tigris River from the U.S.-led coalition headquarters but caused no damage or casualties, the U.S. military said Wednesday.

One landed in a field close to a palace once occupied by one of Saddam Hussein's daughters, now a headquarters for the U.S. civil-military affairs command. Another struck Baghdad University's College of Physical Education, damaging the wall of an enclosed volleyball court. There were no casualties in the shelling.

In Tikrit, Saddam's hometown, insurgents fired late Tuesday on the south gate at the main U.S. military base there. At least one American soldier from the 4th Infantry Division was wounded, witnesses said. A patrol was sent out to search for the assailants, who fled after firing on the troops from a nearby rooftop.

And a U.S. military convoy was attacked Tuesday night by small arms fire in the northern city of Mosul, the military said. There were no casualties.

Rockets were fired Tuesday night at a U.S. military compound in the oil center of Kirkuk, according to Saleh Sabah, a member of the Iraqi National Accord which has offices near the compound.

Sabah said the U.S. troops returned fire with mortars and blocked all roads leading to their garrison.

In Fallujah, a flashpoint Sunni Muslim city 40 miles west of Baghdad, a car exploded Tuesday afternoon on a major street, killing at least four people. The explosion occurred about 330 feet from a police station and 100 feet from a school, but the target was unclear.

[leadpenny]

ping.

[Dacus943]

"Two American soldiers were killed when their Abrams battle tank was damaged by resistance fighters"

Resistance Fighters??? Words fail me!

[wretchard]

Land mine. The tank isn't very heavily armored from below.

[leadpenny]

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1010258/posts

"?Something? felled an M1A1 Abrams tank in Iraq ? but what?"

[Captain Culpepper]

"resistance fighters".. hey give AP a break!! At least they didn't call them "imperialialist battling freedom fighters" .. coming to a liberal news source near you.. another example of the classically liberal, hopeless mainstream media. Liberal bias? What liberal bias??!!

[Thunder 6]

I doubt the tank was actually "destroyed" as Slobodan asserts. More likely it lost a track, and when the crew dismounted to check the damage, someone lit them up. Loader should have been pulling security, but he only has an M240 Machine Gun.

There is a big difference between a "mobility" and "catastrophic" kill on an M1.

regards,

[Prodigal Son]

How can lightly armed guerrillas damage an Abrams, or any other main batle tank, for that matter?

Well, that's exactly what an anti-tank mine does.

[Broadside Joe]

"A spokesman for the multinational(unilateral) division at Camp Babylon said the attack on the Ukrainians occurred when two of their armored personnel carriers rolled over land mines near Suwayrah about 40 miles southeast of Baghdad."

"About 1,650 Ukrainians are serving in the Polish-led (unilateral)stabilization force patrolling central and southern Iraq."

We have to stop this unilateralism.

"The tank was disabled when it was struck by a land mine"

I didn't know they had self-propelled land mines.

[SLB]

What will the headlines be when the first Stryker goes TU?

[First_Salute]

"resistance fighters"

?

To know that, the AP news people must have information such that the AP knows who are these "resistance fighters."

The Iraqis who are resisting Saddam's and fascist Islam's grip upon Iraq and are struggling to free their country from terrorism, should promptly demand the surrender of the "resistance fighters"information that the AP claims to have.

[Coop]

Services unfortunately needed for two more Americans who paid the ultimate price for freedom.

[Cannoneer No. 4]

I think there is a good chance the ideological press will sugar-coat the news of Strykers getting blown up. They will report deaths so they can add to the body count and chant the mantra (this is the 435th American servicemember to die since President Bush declared an end to major combat operations), but I'll bet they don't dwell on the vehicle. They want the Army turned into a Meals On Wheels program, and Shinseki is a Democrat.

[SLB]

To really turn public opinion there needs to be a CNN camera crew nearby when a 10 or 11 year old boy steps out with an RPG and takes out a Stryker with the crew watching from inside the vehicle. Then maybe the country will realize that war is a dangerous place and the bad guys want to kill us and will resort to any measures to do so. In in the meantime we will sit back and watch our young soldiers suffer for the stupidity of their leaders.

[archy]

There is a big difference between a "mobility" and "catastrophic" kill on an M1.

Just so. And the difference is a matter of some small concern to the Abrams crew who've had a hole shot through their tank, and nobody seems to know yet what weapon managed that good trick. Kindly feel free to join us on the following thread where the incident is under discussion. All good ideas and working theories are being considered, and welcome.

I just hope it ain't termites....

An M1A1 Abrams tank with the 1st Armored Division was hit by enemy fire in Baghdad at 5:20 a.m. on Aug. 28. The paper in the photo covers the hole.

The hole in the M1A1 Abrams tank is marked by a circle in the above photo, showing the damage behind the skirt.

A close-up of the mysterious round’s point of entry.

The round penetrated the turret well to reach the inside of the tank.

The round passed through a nuclear, biological, chemical hose inside the tank behind the gunner’s seat and bent the basket

The projectile then tore a hole in the gunner’s seat.

The round pierced the left kidney area of the gunner’s flak jacket. According to the damage report, “The gunner said it felt like someone hit him in the back with a hammer.”

The round then crossed “under the breech and hit the safety guard,” the report said. The photo shows the entry side of the safety guard.

The round then exited the safety guard.

Next, the projectile slammed into the turret networks box.

The round then pierced the breaker panel on the tank.

The mysterious projectile finally buried itself in the hull of the M1A1 Abrams tank on the opposite side from where it entered. The hole is 1½ to 2 inches deep.

-archy-/-

[Mac94]

Depends on what happened. The Palestinians have had some success in destroying IDF Merkava tanks with road mines. The detonation goes off against the underside belly of the tank and can cause terrible damage. The tactic was learned from Hezbollah and they used it from time to time agaisnt the Israeli occupation of S. Lebanon. With the number of foriegn fighters inside Iraq, it is possible that we could run into these kind of devices, and if they'll take out a Merkava, they'll take out an Abrams. We'll have to wait and see what actually happened, and see if we get any press photos of the tank.

[wku man]

The M-1 is. Your run-of-the-mill anti-tank mine would disable, but not destroy the tank. I am skeptical of this report...it would take more than just one mine, or a "roadside bomb" to kill two M-1 crewmen. Methinks maybe a sniper or some such ambush was also involved.

Scouts Out! Cavalry Ho!

[Cannoneer No. 4]

TREADHEAD PING!

Free Republic Treadheads archy; Gringo1; Matthew James; Fred Mertz; Squantos; colorado tanker

Done any tanking? Get on this list.

[Lion Den Dan]

Won't be any headline when a Stryker is blown. It is merely a phase of Army Transformation.

[Gritty]

Two American soldiers were killed when their Abrams battle tank was damaged by resistance fighters

Next thing you know, the Leftist Media will be calling them freedom fighters!

[colorado tanker]

I agree with the speculation that the tank likely lost a tread. I remember the press crowed that the tanks hit by Kornets during the advance on Baghdad were "destroyed," when in fact they were not. We won't know until we see pictures and if the press doesn't publish a picture you'll know there was minimal damage.

[colorado tanker]

Sure looks like some kind of kinetic energy round, Archy. The fact that we didn't see anything like this in the advance on Baghdad makes me suspicious that this weapon was stolen from coalition forces or imported from Syria after the war. I guess the good news is we haven't seen a similar attack in the last two months.

[nemo910]

http://www.cia.gov/terrorism/faqs.html


How do you define terrorism?

The Intelligence Community is guided by the definition of terrorism
contained in Title 22 of the US Code, Section 2656f(d):

¡ªThe term ¡°terrorism¡± means premeditated, politically motivated
violence perpetrated against noncombatant targets by subnational
groups or clandestine agents, usually intended to influence an
audience.

¡ªThe term ¡°international terrorism¡± means terrorism involving the
territory or the citizens of more than one country.

¡ªThe term ¡°terrorist group¡± means any group that practices, or has
significant subgroups that practice, international terrorism.

[Matthew James]

Great post Archy!

Yep, looks like a sabot round to me too, although the portions that hit the gunner's flak jacket and the stuff that went through the safety guard appear to be spalling.

I'd like to see what was left of the projectile. Have you heard of any analysis on what was left of it?

[Squantos]

AT-4 SPIGOT is my guess (SWAG). We found a shitload of em during Desert Storm.........Stay Safe !

[archy]

Yep, looks like a sabot round to me too, although the portions that hit the gunner's flak jacket and the stuff that went through the safety guard appear to be spalling.

I'd like to see what was left of the projectile. Have you heard of any analysis on what was left of it?

I too think it looks more lokely to be a KE munition than a HEAT warhead like that of an *AT-4 Spigot* [9K111-2 Fagot-M] or anything similar, short of possibly a 9M123-2 Hrizantema Krizantema, which flies at supersonic speed and is said to be able to defeat a full meter of composite armor from 6KM. Scary.

The Fagot -M has a range of out to 2.5 KM and is said to be able to penetrate almost 500mm- half a meter, a bit less than 20 inches of steel armor. I don't know how that'd translate so far as the DU armor of the upgraded Abrams, but there've been either very few reported M1A2 kills by presently fielded SovBloc ATGMs, so I'd bet on either something else entirely or a much-improved next generation missile sharing the same launcher mechanism.

Note, though, that there's no sighn of a heat round's scorch marks or dribbled slag at the point of impact. I suspect a hard penetrator moving at 4500 FPS+, though possibly a self-forged slug shaped and driven bu a shaped charge blast in flight, as several of the *smart* AT artillery munitions function from above.

I've got a couple of e-mails out to pals at the Ft Knox college of tanker knowledge, and pointed them to this thread. Maybe we'll get some feedback, maybe not. But we might pick up a couple more treadhead FReepers, and I'd settle for that.

[Matthew James]

It'll be interesting to see what the boys from Knox have to say.

[Cannoneer No. 4]

Notice the similarity between this M1 hit and the 15 Oct 03 attack which killed three Americans in the Gaza Strip. In that attack, a huge bomb exploded in the roadway under a U.S. diplomatic convoy of heavily armed and armored vehicles. Compare the TTPs used in Gaza to those used in Iraq:

The attack occurred at about 10:15 a.m. (4:15 a.m. EDT) Wednesday, five hours after the United States vetoed a U.N. Security Council resolution that would have condemned Israel for building a controversial fence around the West Bank, and as Israeli soldiers in the southern Gaza Strip continued a six-day-old operation to destroy cross-border tunnels. Eight Palestinians have been killed and more than 230 homes have been destroyed or severely damaged in that operation.

The bomb detonated as the convoy was about 11/2 miles inside the Gaza Strip from the Erez crossing at the Israeli border. They were driving along the pockmarked, partially blacktopped road that runs the length of the Gaza Strip and is frequently used by foreigners -- diplomats, aid workers, journalists and others -- as well as by local Palestinians.

According to witnesses and U.S. Embassy officials, a Palestinian security team led the convoy in one car, the American security guards occupied the second vehicle, at least two U.S. diplomats were in the third, and another Palestinian police car brought up the rear. * * *

U.S. officials said the vehicle had armor plating on its roof and sides, but said they did not know whether the vehicle was equipped with armor on its underside to protect against land mines. Israeli officials estimated that the bomb, which was buried in the hardpan roadbed, might have weighed more than 100 pounds.

A smaller bomb planted on another road in the northern Gaza Strip exploded under an Israeli military all-terrain vehicle Wednesday morning, injuring three soldiers, according to an Israeli military spokesman. The spokesman said the two incidents were not believed to be related.

Homemade bombs concocted from petroleum products, sugar, cosmetics, shampoo and varying amounts of TNT are commonly used by militants in the Gaza Strip. The explosives are frequently planted in potholes or beneath roadbeds on routes used by Israeli military vehicles and have been used to blow up 50-ton tanks as well as lighter vehicles.

Some of the explosives are detonated on impact when a vehicle rolls over them; others are more sophisticated and are set off by remote control. A gray cable hanging into the crater left by Wednesday's attack on the U.S. vehicle suggested that the bomb might have been ignited by remote control from a nearby concrete hut. This is pure speculation, but I think these two sets of tactics are pretty similar. The U.S. suspects right now that foreign elements are behind many of the attacks in Iraq, and that they are having a significant influence on domestic Iraqi guerillas. Even if they're not actually conducting the attacks, I think it's very likely these foreigners are providing training and expertise to the Iraqis in the art of urban combat and insurgency. To some extent, these foreign guerillas may also be passing along their doctrine from places like the Gaza Strip and West Bank, where guerillas and terrorists have learned how to defeat sophisticated Israeli security schemes and achieve deadly results. This is a very dangerous development.

[Travis McGee]

Command detonated mines will always be a deadly menace to tanks and other vehicles in MOUT settings. It's hard to avoid them, except by srupulously never going down the same road in a pattern, which is often unavoidable.

The key is to get the transition to a sustainable point and get the uniformed troops the hell out of sight ASAP.

[CWOJackson]

I wouldn't be surprised to find out the munitions used to disable the vehicle was French made and supplied.

[Prodigal Son]

The key is to get the transition to a sustainable point and get the uniformed troops the hell out of sight ASAP.

Yep. Don't get sidetracked. Get to the point where we need to be and then reduce our footprint. It's really about all you can do.

[Travis McGee]

Reducing our VISIBLE footprint should be job one. The uniformed guys should transition to "out of sight reaction force" while the CIA and contractors and SFs do the work in the cities on political transition.

Said wisely from 10,000 miles away at a keyboard.....LOL.

[clamboat]

I doubt the tank was actually "destroyed" as Slobodan asserts. More likely it lost a track...

Unfortunately not, it was completely destroyed...turret blown off and landing nearby.
You've seen the pictures here