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Sobran: My Obsession with Jews [for all who mistakenly think he is a valuable contributor]
Federal Observer ^ | maybe 10/30/03 | Joe Sobran

Posted on 10/30/2003 8:04:40 AM PST by Chancellor Palpatine

Edited on 10/30/2003 9:21:43 AM PST by Lead Moderator. [history]

[Moderator's note: We have received a few complaints on this posting, saying that this is a forgery, that it is not written by Joe Sobran. I was able to find this on his site.]

Sobran: My Obsession with Jews
By Joe Sobran

Now and then I get letters and e-mail messages asking why I am so "obsessed" with Jews and Israel. The question amuses me. It would be one thing if I often wrote about Mali, or Honduras, or Borneo, or any other nation or country most people remember only as a name from geography class.

I should think it's obvious that I'm “responding” to an obsession – an obsession of contemporary culture, politics, the media, the arts. We have been getting 24/7 coverage of Jews, the Holocaust, and Israel for years now. The front pages, the evening news, the magazine covers devote so much attention to Israel - a country the size of New Jersey on the other side of the world - that you could get the impression that it spans several time zones and includes much of the world's population (plus a few gentiles). Many columnists write about it more often than I do: Charles Krauthammer, William Safire, Cal Thomas, Paul Greenberg, Mona Charen, and George Will, to name a few. Of course they write uncritically about Israel, so they aren't considered obsessed; Eric Alterman of THE NATION has compiled a list of more than 60 well-known pundits who "reflexively" support Israel, while finding only 6 who are frequently critical.

Every American president has to spend a disproportionate amount of his time coddling Israel and denouncing or actively fighting Israel's enemies. It's become part of the job description, as much as if it were written into the Constitution - or more so, since constitutional obligations have become optional and *this* obligation is definitely not. At the same time, no president or any other politician may suggest that the American-Israeli alliance imposes undue risks, costs, or burdens on the United States.

Journalism still devotes so much attention to the Holocaust that, as I once quipped, "The NEW YORK TIMES should be renamed ”HOLOCAUST UPDATE." Books and movies about it continue to pour forth; bookstores have whole sections on the Holocaust, and universities consecrate entire departments to "Holocaust studies." Holocaust memorials spring up everywhere. Elie Wiesel preaches that we *should* be obsessed with the Holocaust, as he is. Churches, accused of silent complicity in, and even ultimate responsibility for, the Holocaust, do their best to repent and atone.

Current Jewish sufferings are treated as specially tragic facts, extensions of the Holocaust itself. When Arab terrorists seized an Italian ship, the Achille Lauro, and threw a Jewish passenger overboard, a leading American composer, John Adams, wrote an entire opera, THE DEATH OF KLINGHOFFER, about the incident.

"Anti-Semitism" has become the chief of sins. It's seldom helpfully defined, but it seems to take a thousand forms, from outright genocide to indiscreet bons mots about Israel. Many gentiles live in dread of being labeled anti-Semitic, a charge against which there is no real defense or appeal: to be accused is to be guilty. The burden of proof, as I've often pointed out, is on the defendant - and a difficult burden it is, since he hardly knows what he's being accused of. How can you prove your innocence of an undefined crime? By the same token, there is no penalty for false charges of anti-Semitism, since a meaningless charge can't be proved false anyway.

No gentile is quite safe from the charge. The Gospels, Catholicism, and the papacy have been indicted; so have Chaucer, Shakespeare, Voltaire, Edmund Burke, Dickens, Henry James, Henry Adams, Dostoyevsky, Mark Twain, Hilaire Belloc, G.K. Chesterton, T.S. Eliot, Ezra Pound, Hemingway. (So far Jane Austen and Emily Dickinson seem to have escaped the accusation.) Then there are whole anti-Semitic nations, among them Russia, Poland, Hungary, Romania, Germany, France, and Spain, lately joined by most of the Arab nations (thereby proving it is possible to be Semitic and anti-Semitic at the same time).

Billy Graham was recently roasted for anti-Semitism when it transpired that he'd made a few disparaging comments about Jews in the media during what he'd thought were private conversations with President Richard Nixon “30 years ago!” Perish the thought that there might have been a grain of truth in what he'd said; Graham dutifully groveled, then, when Jewish groups indignantly complained that this was not enough, he groveled again. A few years back, even that Hollywood icon Marlon Brando had to do a tearfully groveling retraction of some mildly critical comments about Jews in Hollywood.

And they wonder why I'm obsessed.

Of course I have my own special reasons. In 1986 I had my own run-in with fanatical Zionists, earned the dreaded label, and refused to perform the mandatory grovel. I won't retell the whole story here, except to say that my own ardent support for Israel had ended in 1982 when I realized what Israel's cruel invasion of Lebanon, led by Ariel Sharon, meant for America and for my family.

For America it meant that the Jewish lobby, including some of my neo-conservative friends (as I thought them), had gotten this country into a sticky situation: an alliance that was morally dubious and very dangerous. We were being steered into a needless war with the Arabs, hotly desired by Israel and its supporters but contrary to our own real interests.

As for the Sobrans, two of them - my sons Kent and Mike - were in their teens. If, as seemed likely, the military draft was restored, they might be sent to fight the war the Zionists were seeking. I began arguing in my syndicated column for American disengagement from Israel.

Shortly afterward I ran into Ben Wattenberg, one of my friends (I thought), who said he'd heard I'd "gone off the reservation on Israel." It was the first time I'd been informed that I was on a "reservation," but I soon learned what he meant.

Despite various warnings and pressures - veiled threats, really – I wasn't about to back down or retract anything. As far as I was concerned, I was fighting for my boys' lives. But if I wanted to thrive in journalism, I was expected to put Jewish interests ahead of everything, or at least keep quiet.

As I told Bill Buckley at the time, the Jewish- Zionist interest amounted to an unacknowledged third party in American politics. Though it had been traditionally liberal, it had sprouted a "neo-conservative" wing since 1967. In truth, the neo-conservatives were hardly conservative at all. For most of them, Israel was everything and overrode all other issues. You could agree with them on nine out of ten issues, but if the tenth was Israel the other nine didn't matter to them. You were the enemy.

You couldn't really feel the power of the Jewish Party until you ran up against it. With amazing speed it had thoroughly satellized the largely Christian conservative movement, thanks in large part to Buckley. He wasn't about to let me imperil his position. He tried to tell me so, in his indirect and avuncular way, but I couldn't take a hint.

Luckily, I was a fairly small fry in the movement, and the Jewish Party had far bigger antagonists to target for destruction. I didn't get the full treatment Buckley would have gotten if he'd said what I had said, or the treatment Pat Buchanan did get.

Still, when the blowup came I felt deserted -- and in some cases betrayed -- by my fellow conservatives. Much as I wished they would rush to my defense, I also wished that if this was too much to ask, they would at least see the “meaning” of what was being done to me.

Put simply, I was paying the price for “defending American interests” (and conservative principles). If, as the neocons insisted, American and Israeli interests were more or less identical, they should have called me anti-American, not (or not only) anti-Semitic. But of course they never did; they weren't that subtle, and in some ways they were deeply confused.

Without realizing it, they were tacitly admitting that I was right: that American and Israeli interests were very different - even conflicting - things. Why else would Israel need a lobby in America at all, except to promote its interests to the detriment of our own? This should be obvious, but most people don't get it.

Of course there is no American lobby in Israel to look out for our interests, regardless of the impact on Israeli interests. This is only one of the many unnoticed asymmetries of the situation. Double standards can succeed in their furtive purpose only when they pass unobserved. But to call attention to double standards favoring Jews is "anti-Semitism." According to Zionist rhetoric, of course, only anti-Semites apply double standards - though in fact Zionism's first principle is that ordinary standards of justice don't apply to Jews. As one Israeli rabbi has put it, "A million Arabs are not worth one Jewish fingernail."

That sounds like a defiantly brutal denial that "all men are created equal." The rabbi may have meant that it would be better to murder a million Arabs than to tolerate the slightest Jewish loss. But he might have meant something much less bellicose, something even pacific: that the current tradeoff of Jewish and Arab lives is a terrible thing for the Jews, even if far more Arabs than Jews die. Nobody really wins a war that diminishes both sides.

It may be said that all this amounts to a caricature of the Jews. In fact, I'll say it myself. It's really a self-caricature of the Jews, drawn by the prevalent part of the Jewish community. It reflects neither the older tradition of the Orthodox, which is rooted in the hard objectivity of Mosaic law rather than modern sentimental victimology; nor the immense variety of Jewish intellectuals, who are as the sands of the sea but who don't usually subscribe fully to the oversimplified myths of the Holocaust and Zionism.

The Orthodox Jew, faithful to an ancient and rigorous tradition, commands respect. So, in a different way, does the nonobservant intellectual Jew, who greatly enriches the life of the mind in the modern West; he remains unobsessed by the Holocaust and skeptical of, even embarrassed by, Zionism. In some cases, both the Orthodox Jew and the unaffiliated intellectual Jew may be downright anti-Zionist.

The plague-carriers, so to speak, are the secularized, liberal, middlebrow Jews whose vulgarity sets the tone for American politics, public discourse, and popular culture. Some of them, like Steven Spielberg and Barbra Streisand, have real talent, of sorts; most of them are good at making money and aggressive in using it for their pet causes. Above all, they have a low genius for propaganda - for shaping the popular mind and its characteristic platitudes.

This is the prevalent body of Jews, our unacknowledged third party – the party of Zionism, Holocaust promotion, secularism, sexual license (including "gay rights" and legal abortion), and an aggressive U.S. foreign policy (in the interests of Israel, not the United States itself). The Jewish Party, only a small fraction of the U.S. population, donates more than half the money received by the presidential candidates of the two major parties. It also dominates the major news and entertainment media.

The Jewish Party's inordinate power, though unmentionable in the major media, explains why gentiles, especially the ambitious, dread the label of "anti-Semitism." Some of the most perceptive, sensitive, and effective critiques of Jewish power - that is, of the Jewish Party -- have been made by Orthodox and intellectual Jews. One danger of the present situation is that the Jewish Party will become synonymous with "the Jews."

And this is exactly what the Party wants: to be recognized as the only authoritative Jewish voice, with all dissenting Jews marginalized. Under the brutal rule of Ariel Sharon, Israel's image in the West is worse than ever before. Today it's startling to remember the radiant aura it enjoyed in the days when its chief international spokesman was the urbane and eloquent Abba Eban. Those days are gone forever. The old image of a humane, democratic Israel was largely myth - a myth Sharon himself still exploits - but at least the Israelis made some effort to maintain its plausibility. Now, as Israeli soldiers shoot Arab women in labor without official rebuke or regret, the ugliness of Zionism has become visible to anyone with eyes to see.

Shouting "Holocaust" and "anti-Semitism" can no longer disguise the facts. Despite all the rhetoric, Israel is a "democracy" only in a Pickwickian sense. It began by expelling most of its Arab majority, seizing its homes, and refusing it reentry. That created a Jewish majority, which has been maintained and increased by extending to every Jew on earth the "right of return" to a land where few of those Jews (or for that matter, of their ancestors) had ever lived in the first place. Yet the fiction of Israeli democracy is still honored by the United States.

The Great Obsession has become a huge embarrassment for the Bush administration. It can't repudiate the U.S. alliance with Israel, even as it needs international - especially Arab - support for the "war on terrorism." Of course that war itself is a result of the Obsession, which has shaped American foreign policy for decades.

The embarrassment is also a Laocoon-like entanglement. Polite diplomacy flounders in the vain quest for a peaceful settlement; Rome and Carthage are trying to destroy each other, and both sides are invited to a tea party.

As suicide bombings alternate with disproportionate yet unavailing retaliations, the daily news from Israel is so painful that we all yearn for a solution. But it's probably too late. It has been wisely said that even the greatest chess player can't take over a misplayed game after 40 moves. This game is clearly destined to end - or to continue indefinitely - in tragedy. The only question is how many millions of people will be engulfed in its flames.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Foreign Affairs; Germany; Israel; News/Current Events; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: flamebait; nazi; sobran; sobranisapunk
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
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Frequently of FR we will see articles written by Mr. Sobran, and see them held forth as some distillation of deep thought by those "true conservatives" of the paleocon right. In those threads, there will inevitably be some comment about Mr. Sobran's biases, but we are always assured that those don't really exist, and that his is a valid worldview, borne of hardy thought and reflection, and that by turning our backs on paleoconservatism, we do a disservice to the cause.

I found this little gem when lurking about on LF, and found this article sourced at a site I classify as appealing to neonazis.

I have long formed my opinion of Mr. Sobran and the doctrines he espouses, this merely confirmed them.

I invite others to read this and form their own opinions.

1 posted on 10/30/2003 8:04:41 AM PST by Chancellor Palpatine
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To: Theodore R.
Your hero speaks from the heart.
2 posted on 10/30/2003 8:05:07 AM PST by Chancellor Palpatine (Dr. Hasslein was the only human character who had any sense in the "Apes" series)
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To: Catspaw; Poohbah; hchutch; Long Cut; ArneFufkin; habs4ever
.
3 posted on 10/30/2003 8:05:57 AM PST by Chancellor Palpatine (Dr. Hasslein was the only human character who had any sense in the "Apes" series)
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To: Chancellor Palpatine
Something is funny abt this article. The Sobran site has a similarly named article called Obsessions about Israel, but the body of the article is completely different.

The neonazi website links not to a Sobran column, but to a newsgroup which posted the article without a link. If this article is real why did not the neonazi website link to a newspaper where this alleged Sobran article was published?

4 posted on 10/30/2003 8:14:00 AM PST by Dialup Llama
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To: Chancellor Palpatine
Major Kusanagi

Hey, listen now! Sobran isn't alone. There are millions who agree with him....

Be Seeing You,

Chris

5 posted on 10/30/2003 8:15:25 AM PST by section9 (Major Kusanagi says, "Click on my pic and read my blog, or eat lead!")
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To: Chancellor Palpatine
Help me out here: the difference between Sobran and Indonesian PM Mahathir is what?
6 posted on 10/30/2003 8:16:27 AM PST by Catspaw
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To: Dialup Llama; Chancellor Palpatine; SJackson; Poohbah
I really don't know, but Sobran's hung out with Holocaust deniers (the Institute for Historical Review).

7 posted on 10/30/2003 8:17:01 AM PST by hchutch ("I don't see what the big deal is, I really don't." - Major Vic Deakins, USAF (ret.))
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To: section9
LOL! Excellent post.
8 posted on 10/30/2003 8:17:24 AM PST by hchutch ("I don't see what the big deal is, I really don't." - Major Vic Deakins, USAF (ret.))
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To: Chancellor Palpatine
I would like to hear more about Sobran's understanding of "the oversimplified myths of the Holocaust and Zionism" that I apparently subscribe to.

I agree that criticism of Israel should not be dismissed as anti-semitic but clearly some of this article goes further than that.

Very interesting. Good post.
9 posted on 10/30/2003 8:18:34 AM PST by wesdale
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To: dennisw; Cachelot; Yehuda; Nix 2; veronica; Catspaw; knighthawk; Alouette; Optimist; weikel; ...
If you'd like to be on or off this middle east/political ping list, please FR mail me.
10 posted on 10/30/2003 8:18:46 AM PST by SJackson
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To: Chancellor Palpatine
You'd think Sobran would have been pleased with our involvement in Lebanon, we saved Arafat's ass.
11 posted on 10/30/2003 8:19:58 AM PST by SJackson
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To: Dialup Llama
Sadly, Sobran has been flirting with this stuff for all too long.
12 posted on 10/30/2003 8:20:33 AM PST by Chancellor Palpatine (Dr. Hasslein was the only human character who had any sense in the "Apes" series)
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To: hchutch
>I really don't know, but Sobran's hung out with Holocaust deniers (the Institute for Historical Review).

Just post a link to a newspaper or magazine which published this article originally. The website merely posts a link to another newsgroup in which the poster claimed to have received the column in an email. This leads me to belive the article is an internet forgery.

13 posted on 10/30/2003 8:21:25 AM PST by Dialup Llama
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To: Dialup Llama
You are making the claim it's a forgery. Prove that it is.
14 posted on 10/30/2003 8:23:14 AM PST by hchutch ("I don't see what the big deal is, I really don't." - Major Vic Deakins, USAF (ret.))
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To: Chancellor Palpatine
While I have no doubt Sobran might have written this, he didn't write it as recently as September 2003. He is an anti-Semite, but I hate to see Internet hoaxes get spread.

For something that Sobran takes credit for, read "For Fear of the Jews". It's the same sort of frightening stuff.

15 posted on 10/30/2003 8:23:16 AM PST by AmishDude
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To: Chancellor Palpatine; Dialup Llama
I see where the source of the article is questioned. It would be nice to find out that it's not his.

I consider myself more or less of a libertarian, yet why wouldn't it surprise me if the Libertarians jump on the Palestinian bandwagon, along with the Left?

Some of these people are just assclowns.
16 posted on 10/30/2003 8:23:33 AM PST by Sam Cree (Democrats are herd animals)
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To: Catspaw
On line text: Ant-Semite and Jew- partial synopsis of an age old meme and mental illness
17 posted on 10/30/2003 8:23:51 AM PST by Helms (Liberals have a Mental Defect which does not permit an accurate perception of Reality)
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To: AmishDude
Sorry. That "as recently as" is a little confusing. What I mean is, if Sobran wrote it, he did so in the last month.
18 posted on 10/30/2003 8:24:28 AM PST by AmishDude
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To: wesdale
I would like to hear more about Sobran's understanding of "the oversimplified myths of the Holocaust and Zionism" that I apparently subscribe to.

Jews use those myths to maintain control over Christians by instilling a overwhelming sense of guilt.

If it's posted at libertyforum you could wander over later when the threads developed and learn all about it.

19 posted on 10/30/2003 8:25:27 AM PST by SJackson
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To: Chancellor Palpatine
"The plague-carriers, so to speak, are the secularized, liberal, middlebrow Jews whose vulgarity sets the tone for American politics, public discourse, and popular culture. Some of them, like Steven Spielberg and Barbra Streisand, have real talent, of sorts; most of them are good at making money and aggressive in using it for their pet causes. Above all, they have a low genius for propaganda - for shaping the popular mind and its characteristic platitudes."

This paragraph is the essnce of the piece, and what we have here is a restatement of the Medieval idea of the "dirty Jew," the corrupting Jew, the Jew as a defective human, the Jew who undermines good, clean Christian values. Yes, there are many Jews who fit this profile, but there inummerably more Catholics, Protestants, and non-Jewish secularists who fit it. Sobran is re-packaging an ancient smear.
20 posted on 10/30/2003 8:26:20 AM PST by Steve_Seattle ("Above all, shake your bum at Burton.")
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To: Catspaw
Um...Mahathir is the leader of Malaysia not Indonesia.
21 posted on 10/30/2003 8:28:53 AM PST by xp38
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To: Chancellor Palpatine
Other than a naive assessment of Israel, which sounds an awful lot like the mainstream journalism of most of Europe, where is the smoking gun in the article above? The fact that a neo-Nazi group liked it? They'd presumably like anything critical of Israel. Why should that be a surprise? Is there some damning quote in the article itself you'd like to point out?

Sobran, Charley Reese, and Pat Buchanan are all anti-Israel, and essentially all offer the same line of reasoning. I happen to think they're wrong - in some cases dazzlingly wrong. But I don't think that makes any of them anti-Semites. Their criticism is almost entirely geo-political and semi-isolationist, but it's not racial. If they truly are bigots, a bit more evidence is needed.

22 posted on 10/30/2003 8:29:51 AM PST by Snuffington
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To: Chancellor Palpatine
I won't retell the whole story here, except to say that my own ardent support for Israel had ended in 1982 when I realized what Israel's cruel invasion of Lebanon, led by Ariel Sharon, meant for America and for my family.

For America it meant that the Jewish lobby, including some of my neo-conservative friends (as I thought them), had gotten this country into a sticky situation: an alliance that was morally dubious and very dangerous. We were being steered into a needless war with the Arabs, hotly desired by Israel and its supporters but contrary to our own real interests.

Yeah, the Ayatollah's coup-de-tat, the seizure of our embassy, and the holding of our hostages for over a year had nothing at all to with steering us towards that war. What a moron this guy is.

23 posted on 10/30/2003 8:31:01 AM PST by jpl
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To: SJackson
Which Jews and what control? This is ridiculous.

Personally, I'm starting to think this is a hoax. Somebody post a real link (to something other than neo-nazi sites or public forums.)
24 posted on 10/30/2003 8:32:41 AM PST by wesdale
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To: Chancellor Palpatine
The plague-carriers, so to speak, are the secularized, liberal, middlebrow Jews whose vulgarity sets the tone for American politics, public discourse, and popular culture. Some of them, like Steven Spielberg and Barbra Streisand, have real talent, of sorts; most of them are good at making money and aggressive in using it for their pet causes. Above all, they have a low genius for propaganda - for shaping the popular mind and its characteristic platitudes.

Well, Joe -- this is pretty damned ugly. And your "obsession" with what you call the "Jewish Party" seems like something out of the "Protocols of the Elders of Zion."

Sounds to me like "anti-Semitic" is a lot more accurate than you'd want us to believe.

25 posted on 10/30/2003 8:33:04 AM PST by r9etb
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To: hchutch
>You are making the claim it's a forgery. Prove that it is.

I'm 90% sure its a forgery. I did a google search and got 4 hits. All were web forums where posters submitted the same email article. Nowhere did the search reference an original publication which carried this article.

Sobran did write an article called Obsession with Israel (not Obession with Jews), but the body of the real Sobran article is completely different from the forgery.

26 posted on 10/30/2003 8:33:27 AM PST by Dialup Llama
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To: wesdale
If you read his site, it isn't a stretch to say he wrote this, sad to say.
27 posted on 10/30/2003 8:33:46 AM PST by Chancellor Palpatine (Dr. Hasslein was the only human character who had any sense in the "Apes" series)
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To: xp38
Oops, I got those countries that end in "sia" mixed up.
28 posted on 10/30/2003 8:33:46 AM PST by Catspaw
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To: Chancellor Palpatine
A legend in his own mind. An obsessed, sick ba**ard. His attitudes are a lot more warped than what he has to the gnads to write here.
29 posted on 10/30/2003 8:34:02 AM PST by dennisw (G_d is at war with Amalek for all generations)
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To: Chancellor Palpatine
Then post something from his site. Why waste my time with this junk.
30 posted on 10/30/2003 8:35:03 AM PST by wesdale
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To: Snuffington
Their criticism is almost entirely geo-political and semi-isolationist, but it's not racial. If they truly are bigots, a bit more evidence is needed.

See the paragraph I quoted in post #20. Calling a group "plague carriers" is not making a geo-political statement about Israel. He is saying that Jews are corrupting our culture, and that is a racial smear.
31 posted on 10/30/2003 8:35:05 AM PST by Steve_Seattle ("Above all, shake your bum at Burton.")
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To: Snuffington
Their criticism is almost entirely geo-political and semi-isolationist, but it's not racial. If they truly are bigots, a bit more evidence is needed.

See the paragraph I quoted in post #20. Calling a group "plague carriers" is not making a geo-political statement about Israel. He is saying that Jews are corrupting our culture, and that is a racial smear.
32 posted on 10/30/2003 8:35:27 AM PST by Steve_Seattle ("Above all, shake your bum at Burton.")
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To: Snuffington
Other than a naive assessment of Israel, which sounds an awful lot like the mainstream journalism of most of Europe, where is the smoking gun in the article above?

See the passage referred to by me, above, and by Steve_Seattle in #20. As Steve points out, it's just a rehash of the old "dirty Jew" smear.

33 posted on 10/30/2003 8:35:42 AM PST by r9etb
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To: Steve_Seattle; Chancellor Palpatine
Ok. Point conceded. I missed that one. "Plague carriers" , and calling out Streisand and Spielberg's Judaism is pretty suspicious. There's no rational correlation there, and I have a hard time seeing why it belongs there. I retract my comment in post 22.
34 posted on 10/30/2003 8:36:03 AM PST by Snuffington
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To: AmishDude
I found Sobran's "For Fear of the Jews" at the IHR website. He's listed as a speaker at their 2002 conference.
35 posted on 10/30/2003 8:36:28 AM PST by Catspaw
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To: Chancellor Palpatine
and see them held forth as some distillation of deep thought by those "true conservatives" of the paleocon right.

Ever consider the possibility that it is?
As for the Obsession of some of us with the Jews, could it be something about the fact that 12 milion of them were killed, and the little fact that they are and have been at war with their nieghbors, and they are an island of western culture in a vast sea of unenlightenment?.

36 posted on 10/30/2003 8:36:41 AM PST by Valin (A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject)
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To: wesdale
Try the article linked by AmishDude in #15.
37 posted on 10/30/2003 8:38:25 AM PST by Chancellor Palpatine (Dr. Hasslein was the only human character who had any sense in the "Apes" series)
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To: Steve_Seattle; SJackson
What's really stupid about that paragraph is that the secularized "parasitic" hollywierd Jews he complains about are NOT very pro-Israel, which, if he would have half a brain, is exactly why they are also not very pro-America.

While I am sure there are some secular Jews (AND GENTILES) who make money off of business ventures many of us find revolting and who are also big donors to Israel, the majority of American Jews (of whatever stripe) who actively support Israel in her fight for survival do so because it's good for America, and they also support AMERICA in the same fight against terrorism!

And as SJackson notes above, I notice he has no complaints about other nations/groups invading Lebanon (Syria, the plo, Iran thru Hizbollah).

He's a jerk.
38 posted on 10/30/2003 8:39:09 AM PST by Yehuda
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To: Valin
"As for the Obsession of some of us with the Jews"

I'm married to one for 30 years; I'm definitely obsessed.

39 posted on 10/30/2003 8:42:32 AM PST by Sam Cree (Democrats are herd animals)
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To: wesdale
There's a link at #15 to a Sobran article.
40 posted on 10/30/2003 8:42:49 AM PST by AmishDude
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To: Dialup Llama
I'm 90% sure its a forgery. I did a google search and got 4 hits. All were web forums where posters submitted the same email article. Nowhere did the search reference an original publication which carried this article.

Small but telling point: Sobran doesn't "sign" his articles with "Joe Sobran". Check his website's archives - it's always "Joseph Sobran."

41 posted on 10/30/2003 8:43:01 AM PST by willieroe
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To: Chancellor Palpatine
I must wonder if Joe Sobran is going down the path of Revilo Oliver, who, like Sobran, was a classical scholar who started his career as a social commentator as a mainstream conservative and ended up in his dotage as a man who believed Hitler was too moderate. Oliver was not alone. In the post-World War II era, there were a number of men who started out as Taft-McCarthy-Goldwater supporters, then moved to the John Birch Society and similar "conspiracy theory" groups, and finally migrated into full blown anti-Semitism and white supremacism. Some people who drift in this direction, like Pat Buchanan, stop short of going as far as Sobran has.

This tendency is not just a Catholic phenomenon, as might be suggested by the names of Sobran or Bucahnan. Texe Marrs, a fundamentalist Christian prophecy commentator (who is also vehemently anti-Catholic) has gone from a mainstream premillenialist with views similar to those of Hal Lindsey or Tim LaHaye to a full blown anti-Semite, now claiming that the Jews are essentially a demon-possessed race. Even nonbelieving libertarians like Justin Raimondo have shown tendencies toward blaming the Jews for everything that goes wrong in the world.

I must wonder if the movement from a mainstream position to the farther shores of politics is more of a pathology than a reasoned position based on the evidence.

42 posted on 10/30/2003 8:43:40 AM PST by Wallace T.
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To: Catspaw
Yeah, "For Fear of the Jews" is apparently his speech there.
43 posted on 10/30/2003 8:43:52 AM PST by AmishDude
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To: Chancellor Palpatine
from the Federal Observer

FOREWARD: Below is a column written by Joe Sobran. Mr. Sobran was formerly an editor at National Review magazine. National Review was founded by William Buckley and for many years it was regarded at the preeminent journal of conservative thought in America. But William Buckley was a coward. He was afraid to take on the power of the Jewish Party in America. So when Joe Sobran started writing articles that were critical of Israel, Mr. Buckley fired Joe Sobran. Now, in my opinion, National Review magazine is run by a worthless Neo-Con Jew when it should be run by a Pro-Life conservative like Joe Sobran.

Give me a break. I guess someone can be on the right and an idiot at the same time.

44 posted on 10/30/2003 8:45:03 AM PST by Valin (A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject)
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To: AmishDude; Sam Cree; Chancellor Palpatine; Dialup Llama; hchutch; Yehuda; Catspaw; Valin; ...
Go to Sobrans Web page, access his 2002 Newsletter archives, you’ll find it in May 2002 — Vol. 9, No. 5 second article, titled “The Obsession”.

This link might take you right there.

AM, simply pinged you to clarify Sobran’s authorship

45 posted on 10/30/2003 8:45:08 AM PST by SJackson
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To: Sam Cree
I'm married to one for 30 years; I'm definitely obsessed

A wise move on your part! :-)
46 posted on 10/30/2003 8:46:41 AM PST by Valin (A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject)
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To: willieroe; wesdale
It's Sobran. See post 45. It's from his EMail newsletter and it is on his site, you just didn't find it.
47 posted on 10/30/2003 8:47:34 AM PST by SJackson
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To: SJackson
Thanks. Great work.
48 posted on 10/30/2003 8:48:27 AM PST by AmishDude
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To: SJackson
Obsessions about Israel
March 6, 2003

by Joe Sobran

The other day a Zionist writer accused me of being
"an obsessed critic of Israel." And here I'd imagined I
was an obsessed critic of the U.S. Government........

......MORE......

http://www.sobran.com/columns/2003/030306.htm
49 posted on 10/30/2003 8:49:30 AM PST by dennisw (G_d is at war with Amalek for all generations)
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To: SJackson
And there it is, word for word, right on Sobran's own website.
50 posted on 10/30/2003 8:50:36 AM PST by Catspaw
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