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To: Right Wing Professor
Poetic justice, me lad, will have you dying from an antibiotic resistant Staph. aureus infection.

That is not a new trait. For evolution to be true it has to have added new genes, functions, and abilities to a species. The DNA of a bacteria is about a million base pairs, of humans some three billion. So no, the change of one bit pair (if true) does not constitute evolution or proof of it.

DNA sequencing in fact shows us exactly how: genes duplicate and then one evolves in a new direction.

Gene duplication has never been observed. Sequencing can only tell us that genes are similar, it cannot tell us how it happened.

the interconnectedness of life shows how impossible it is for anything new to become an integral part of the rest.-me-

You mean, like the way house sparrows and starlings died out in the United States after they were introduced? Or kudzu? Or zebra mussels? Or nutria? Or the mongoose in Hawaii?

Totally irrelevant to my point. We are talking about the organisms themselves. There is no hint that those things evolved. Put a penguin in a tropical forest and let's see how long it lasts or if it evolves enough to survive. In fact the introduction of new species into new habitats shows quite well that new predators in an environment result in the destruction of the old species, not in their evolution - something which evolutionists claim is one of the prime movers of species transforming themselves into new species.

291 posted on 10/31/2003 9:16:05 PM PST by gore3000 ("To say dogs, mice, and humans are all products of slime plus time is a mystery religion.")
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To: gore3000
That is not a new trait

Of course it's a new trait. Antibiotic resistance is a trait, and it wasn't present previously, so it's new. I think you think you can simply make unfortunate facts disappear by denying them. T

Gene duplication has never been observed.

Really?

Dev Biol 2002 Sep 1;249(1):96-107

Duplication of the Hoxd11 gene causes alterations in the axial and appendicular skeleton of the mouse.

Boulet AM, Capecchi MR.

Howard Hughes Medical Institute, Department of Human Genetics, University of Utah, School of Medicine, Salt Lake City, Utah 84112-5331, USA.

The Hox genes encode a group of transcription factors essential for proper development of the mouse. Targeted mutation of the Hoxd11 gene causes reduced male fertility, vertebral transformation, carpal bone fusions, and reductions in digit length. A duplication of the Hoxd11 gene was created with the expectation that the consequences of restricted overexpression in the appropriate cells would provide further insight into the function of the Hoxd11 gene product. Genetic assays demonstrated that two tandem copies of Hoxd11 were functionally indistinguishable from the normal two copies of the gene on separate chromosomes with respect to formation of the axial and appendicular skeleton. Extra copies of Hoxd11 caused an increase in the lengths of some bones of the forelimb autopod and a decrease in the number of lumbar vertebrae.

Totally irrelevant to my point.

You said "the interconnectedness of life shows how impossible it is for anything new to become an integral part of the rest". That's utter nonsense. The United States is full of introduced organisms that became integrated into ecosystems. You posted, for about the eighth time tonight, something that was almost comically wrong, and you don't have the cojones or the intellectual honesty to own up to it.

294 posted on 10/31/2003 9:29:32 PM PST by Right Wing Professor
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To: gore3000
Gene duplication has never been observed.

The amount of ignorance inherent in this statement is breathtaking.

Here are a few papers for you to chew on in order to begin to rectify your lack of knowledge concerning gene duplications:

Koch, AL: Evolution of antibiotic resistance gene function. Microbiol Rev 1981, 45:355378.

Velkov, VV: Gene amplification in prokaryotic and eukaryotic systems. Genetika 1982, 18:529543.

Romero, D & Palacios, R: Gene amplification and genomic plasticity in prokaryotes. Annu Rev Genet 1997, 31:91111.

Stark, GR & Wahl, GM: Gene amplification. Annu Rev Biochem 1984, 53:447491.

Reinbothe, S, Ortel, B, & Parthier, B: Overproduction by gene amplification of the multifunctional arom protein confers glyphosate tolerance to a plastid-free mutant of Euglena gracilis. Mol Gen Genet 1993, 239:416424.

Gottesman, MM, Hrycyna, CA, Schoenlein, PV, Germann, UA, & Pastan, I: Genetic analysis of the multidrug transporter. Annu Rev Genet 1995, 29:607649.

Schwab, M: Oncogene amplification in solid tumors. Semin Cancer Biol 1999, 9:319325.

Widholm, JM, Chinnala, AR, Ryu, JH, Song, HS, Eggett, T, & Brotherton, JE: Glyphosate selection of gene amplification in suspension cultures of three plant species. Physiol Plant 2001, 112:540545.

Otto, E, Young, JE, & Maroni, G: Structure and expression of a tandem duplication of the Drosophila metallothionein gene. Proc Natl Acad Sci USA 1986, 83:60256029.

Maroni, G, Wise, J, Young, JE, & Otto, E: Metallothionein gene duplications and metal tolerance in natural populations of Drosophila melanogaster. Genetics 1987, 117:739744.

Kondratyeva, TF, Muntyan, LN, & Karvaiko, GI: Zinc-resistant and arsenic-resistant strains of Thiobacillus ferrooxidans have increased copy numbers of chromosomal resistance genes. Microbiology 1995, 141:11571162.

Tohoyama, H, Shiraishi, E, Amano, S, Inouhe, M, Joho, M, & Murayama, T: Amplification of a gene for metallothionein by tandem repeat in a strain of cadmium-resistant yeast cells. FEMS Microbiol Lett 1996, 136:269273.

Sonti, RV & Roth, JR: Role of gene duplications in the adaptation of Salmonella typhimurium to growth on limiting carbon sources. Genetics 1989, 123:1928.

Brown, CJ, Todd, KM, & Rosenzweig, RF: Multiple duplications of yeast hexose transport genes in response to selection in a glucose-limited environment. Mol Biol Evol 1998, 15:931942.

Hastings, PJ, Bull, HJ, Klump, JR, & Rosenberg, SM: Adaptive amplification: an inducible chromosomal instability mechanism. Cell 2000, 103:723731.

Tabashnik, BE: Implications of gene amplification for evolution and management of insecticide resistance. J Econ Entomol 1990, 83:11701176.

Lenormand, T, Guillemaud, T, Bourguet, D, & Raymond, M: Appearance and sweep of a gene duplication: adaptive response and potential for new functions in the mosquito Culex pipiens. Evolution 1998, 52:17051712.

Guillemaud, T, Raymond, M, Tsagkarakou, A, Bernard, C, Rochard, P, & Pasteur, N: Quantitative variation and selection of esterase gene amplification in Culex pipiens. Heredity 1999, 83:8799.

(Wait, didn't you just claim that the field of evolution does no research and has no evidence? Hmmm..)
304 posted on 11/01/2003 3:39:23 AM PST by Ichneumon
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