Should evolution be taught in high school science classes?

Modesto Bee ^ | 10/27/03 | Richard Anderson

[ET(end tyranny)]

Have you read 'James: The Brother of Jesus' by Robert Eisenman? It's an excellent book, well researched, documented and sourced. Long read though and I think there is a sequel coming out.

[CobaltBlue]

If you get the chance (which may require you to subscribe to the Sundance channel on cable), watch the documentary about Tom Dowd, music/recording engineer, "Tom Dowd and the Language of Music." The last half hour or so, about Duane Allman and Eric Clapton recording "Layla" is fantastic. Way cool.

CB gives it four stars and says check it out.

[CobaltBlue]

P.S. Makes me desperate to listen once again to Lynyrd Skynyrd's "Freebird." Ya'll play nice.

[js1138]

That would be with Derek and the Dominos?

[CobaltBlue]

Yes, and watching the recording engineer play with the tracks for each performer is not to be missed.

According to Clapton, he and Duane Allman both had similar goals in mind when they played, but Allman used a bottleneck slide to get the sound he wanted, while Clapton bent the strings. Duane is dead, of course, but I trust Clapton. He's always been a straight shooter.

It's interesting to see how much they both looked like each other and how much they sounded like each other. Sort of like they were brothers, separated at birth.

[PatrickHenry]

P L A C E M A R K E R

[Virginia-American]

I don't believe it can be "falsified" or disproved, but why is that a requirement for it to be "science"?

Because the way a scientific theory is falsified is by making predictions which are at odds with reality. If the hypothesis is incapable of making predictions, it is compatable with any possible observations. In other words it is vacuous.

Cretionism/id is such a hypothesis, because any conceivable observation can be 'explained' by saying "well, that's just the way the designer did it"

Biology, on the other hand, makes predictions, which have been verified, eg:

If a pseudogene is found in both gorillas and orangutangs, it will also be found in people and chimps.

AFAIK, there has never been a counterexample to this found.

The logic behind predictions of this sort is very simple: any common ancestor of gorillas and orangutangs is also a common ancestor of chimps and people. The odds are *very* small that the same mutation would occur independently in two different organisms. Hence, the odds overwhelmingly say that the mutation that made the pseudogene occured once, in said common ancestor.

Until creationism/id is capable of making predictions and hence of being falsified, it remains idle speculation, not a scientific theory.

[Virginia-American]

Both sides should be presented and both should be presented as theories.

Except that creationism/id is not a theory, it's a hypothesis. When it has matured to the point it is able to make predictions it will be on its way to becoming a theory.

[Doctor Stochastic]

Can one predict that the birth of Twin White Buffalos will lead the the banishment of the White Eyes and the grass will grow belly high to the wapiti again? (Everyone has some Creation legend do contribute.)

[Ogmios]

thousands of creation legends placemarker

[fabian]

I think that teaching evolution to students as though it were fact without teaching opposing theories such as ID can create a doubt about God. That's what it did to me. It's not fair to the students; I think they are smarter than many adults and can understand alot if it were more available to them.

[PatrickHenry]

I think that teaching evolution to students as though it were fact without teaching opposing theories such as ID can create a doubt about God.

You're right! It's even worse when they teach geology, or the theory of the solar system. I just don't know where all this science stuff will lead us.

[Ogmios]

ID is not a scientific theory, so to teach it next to Evolution, would be a diservice to the students.

Either teach science or don't, you can't have both.

[Prodigal Son]

It's just philosophy.

Out of curiosity, how do you define philosophy? This is one of those words that people seem to have a lot of different personal definitions for (as well as the several that exist in the dictionary). Just curious.

[Prodigal Son]

you can't have both.

We had both when I was in school. Of course they were different classes but we still had both.

[Ogmios]

Of course they were different classes but we still had both.

Absolutely, I have no problem with Religious studies in a religous class, but you do not teach religion in a science class.

[js1138]

I think that teaching evolution to students as though it were fact without teaching opposing theories such as ID can create a doubt about God. That's what it did to me.

I'd be curious to know what specifically caused your concern, and how other sciences like geology and physics can be taught without bringing up the age of the earth.

[Prodigal Son]

but you do not teach religion in a science class.

Actually, that should be "you should not..." Plenty of people do (teach religion in science class) I would wager.

[fabian]

The whole theory that we came from apes and therefore were not created by God in his image created the doubt. I don't think the age of the earth would do that. Keep in mind that I came from a broken family and had a weak support system, but that is the case with alot of kids nowadays. All I am saying is that the education system should be honest and teach the whole range of theories with their strengths and weaknesses and evolution has huge wholes in it. I don't think they ever will because weakened doubtful kids make better liberals needy of the state.