re: California Fires -- LISTEN TO DR. BILL WATTENBURG TONIGHT ON KGO (10:00 PM PACIFIC)

Dr. Bill Wattenburg show -- KGO ^ | Nov. 1, 2003 | dfu

[doug from upland]

LINK TO KGO TO LISTEN LIVE ONLINE

Dr. Bill Wattenburg, a man who has worked in the forest for 40 years and who has designed nuclear weapons at Lawrence Livermore, has a weekend show on KGO in San Francisco on Saturday and Sunday nights.

Dr. Bill is an expert regarding protecting our forests. I expect him to be absolutely ripping the ecofrauds tonight and tomorrow. It will be worth your time to listen to him.

[nicmarlo]

Glad you're okay out there, Doug!

[doug from upland]

Great 1999 piece by Dr. Bill -- CLICK.

[doug from upland]

Thanks. They evacuated about a mile or so north of me while I was on vacation in Texas, but we were never in jeopardy.

[doug from upland]

Good news. If you go to the KGO link now, you can catch the last half hour of the gay Karel show.

[doug from upland]

Isn't Karel cute?

[nicmarlo]

Yeah, I heard you were on vacation......good that all is well...you must have been worried, being so far away, knowing the fire was so close. Lots of FReepers live out by the fires; I haven't heard of one who experienced anything worse than the backyard/close to front yard burning. A miracle. I've got lots of family out there, too; miraculously, none were touched either.

But I feel very sad for those who weren't as fortunate. So many people out there now without homes, or loved ones. It's very sad.

[The Westerner]

Thanks for the reminder, Doug. I'm sure the first 15 minutes will be cathartic for us all. Dr. Bill has facts at his disposal that range far and wide. And to facts he does stick, which is why he is such an excellent commentator. He knows how to let it rip with the best of 'em. His being a nuclear scientist makes it all the more entertaining.

[doug from upland]

Bumping. Don't miss Dr. Bill. 415.808.0810

[doug from upland]

Darn, I don't seem to be able to get streaming from KGO. Is anyone else having trouble? I guess I'll listen on the radio

[nicmarlo]

I got it, at least so far, Doug.

[doug from upland]

Yep, he already used the word "ecofrauds." He is going after the ecofrauds big time. He has been saying for years that this disaster was waiting to happen.

[doug from upland]

The ecofrauds, using Sen. Boxer, have stopped all required activity in our forests. His listeners all know it. They have made suckers out of the media.

[nicmarlo]

Who is it he called a liar?

[doug from upland]

To get the dead trees cleaned up, the effort would have had to begin LAST FALL.

[abner]

I'm trying to listen online and I just keep getting a commercial for some replay radio software program... Am I doing something wrong?

[nicmarlo]

Once that plays, he'll be on.

[abner]

It plays and then goes dead. I guess I'll crash instead. It's later here than there...

[nicmarlo]

As long as he's talking about Davis saying he asked for federal help, I'll repost here what ridesthemiles posted on a fire thread:

Davis cut back the CDF funds, over $50 million. Now the CDF is adding a "fee" to our tax bills for the rural 2 million homeowners. First year, the fee is $70, and $35/yr after that. If you do the math, we are way over funding the missing $50 million. But that's only part of it.

Davis STOOD DOWN the entire CDF air attack fleet of planes on OCT 15th of this year for "winter maintenance". I think the correct months for that maintenance would be Jan-Feb-Mar, when the rains have come and wet down the fire threat. But WTF do I know? I am just a bookkeeper who also raises horse......

In early June, Davis SHUT DOWN the fire observation towers thruout the forest of the state. Up here, volunteers are manning the towers, looking for smoke and fires and generating responses.

Davis spends most of his waking hours garnering campaign funds from supporters, and ignoring the needs of the residents.

[NormsRevenge]

Barbarian BoXer has got to go...

She has been at the forefront of the idiotic charge to keep the forests free of logging or to allow efficient and effective stewardship of this nation's forests.

The Sierra Club and their lawyer leaders should be so proud of the thousands that are homeless tonight in SoCal.

Send her a Thank You for all her's and their efforts to obstruct any effort to save our forests by doing nothing.

[doug from upland]

Davis has helped stand in the way for three years, for five years. They have lied and the press has been complicit. They are now trying to cover their butts. The John Muir Project is the one that has filed most of the lawsuits that have stopped what needed to be done in the forests. They worked through Barbara Boxer.

[doug from upland]

I think you then click the upper right where it says "ON AIR".

[doug from upland]

I think he is calling the ecofrauds liars who are trying to cover their butts. Davis wanted some fed help several months ago. It was already much, much too late to do any good. He is going to keep ripping Boxer.

[doug from upland]

Didn't Clinton sign a bill that keeps the Sierra Club from being sued for their activities?

[doug from upland]

Dr. Bill says it is going to happen again. Even if we started now, it would take more than a year to solve much of the problem. He says it is time for a class action suit against the Sierra Club. They have a hundred million bucks in the bank. Female attorney will be on soon to expose them. She has been fighting them and will expose their lies.

[doug from upland]

Millions and millions of acres of private forest land never have these kinds of problems. They know how to manage their forests.

[nicmarlo]

Analogy is great, if you're not supposed to be building houses in certain places, because it's not natural, then stop modern medicine, because that's not natural, either.

[doug from upland]

The results are in front of the enviro reporters who have bought into this crap for many years. They need to look at themselves in the mirror.

A year ago, Davis and his henchmen stood in the way of healthy forest management. Criminality. They have to be held responsible.

[NormsRevenge]

Sue the bastards ..

ABOUT the John Muir Project .. Founder and contact info

http://www.sierraclub.org/contact/ .. Hdqtrs. and legislative office contact info

[doug from upland]

I had the same argument with an ecofreak during a demonstration in L.A. against Bush/Simon during the last governor's race in Calif. A stupid young woman said that fires are natural. If started by lightning, we shouldn't stop them. I suggested that cancer is nature. Would she stop cancer in her body. Oh, that is different. What a nitwit.

At least one kid at that demonstration admitted his hypocrisy. He carried a sign -- NO BLOOD FOR OIL. I asked him how he got to the demonstration. He admitted it --- okay, I got here in my car.

[NormsRevenge]

Didn't Clinton sign a bill that keeps the Sierra Club from being sued for their activities?

---

As Hitlary often said, "I don't recall." Let me check on that.

[uglybiker]

Thanks for the reminder, Doug.

[doug from upland]

Unbelievable. On the John Muir link is an article about how the Bush policy encourages forest fires.

[Atchafalaya]

A bad karma day to Barb.

[nicmarlo]

Hah, good one. Logic is a foreign concept to the liberals and ecofreaks.

[doug from upland]

This should be a huge issue when Dennis Miller runs against Boxer. (or McClintock. Arnie will back him.)

[uglybiker]

PING

[doug from upland]

It was an amazing demonstration as I went into the Belly of the Beast. The ecofrauds were there. The pro-Palestinians were there. The anti-war lunatics were there. The anti-oil jerks were there. The Bush haters were there. The "Bush was selected" fools were there. The free Mumia racists were there. They had one more thing in common besides hating Bush. They smelled.

[nicmarlo]

ROFL!

[nicmarlo]

I'm sure another commonality was, they were all rudely loud. That's another thing I've noticed with these groups. Their total hatred against any whose opinions differ from theirs.

[doug from upland]

I have to do some exercise. If you are able, please keep posting Dr. Bill's comments. Thanks. I'll be listening.

[nicmarlo]

will do my best.

[NormsRevenge]

Diplomatic Immunity for the Sierra Club?

Step by Step - THE WILDLANDS PROJECT

[NormsRevenge]

FResno Bee,, Michael Doyle , October 8

Monument's creation upheld - Challenge to Giant Sequoia designation is turned away.

WASHINGTON -- The last legal challenge to California's Giant Sequoia National Monument collapsed Monday as the Supreme Court declined to consider an appeal by Tulare County and logging groups. Issued without comment, the court's action upheld President Clinton's creation of the 327,769-acre Giant Sequoia monument.

Frustrating Western conservatives and private-property advocates, the court likewise refused to hear challenges to other Clinton-era monuments in Arizona, Colorado, Oregon and Washington state.

"I think it's great," said Barbara Boyle, the Sierra Club's Sacramento-based senior regional representative. "It reaffirms the validity of the Antiquities Act, and of a president's ability to create monuments."

The Supreme Court's action, coming on its first day of the new October term, was not surprising. The court hears only a few of the cases that are appealed to it each year; usually, only about 100 are taken up for full oral argument, out of some 7,000 petitions.

Westerners, moreover, have consistently failed in their previous legal challenges to the sometimes sprawling monuments created under the Antiquities Act of 1906.

"The Supreme Court is extremely busy," said Kent Duysen, general manager of Sierra Forest Products, "but we always thought we had a good case. We're disappointed, but not shocked."

The Forest Service is preparing its final management plan for the Giant Sequoia monument, which is expected to be completed this fall.

"I think they've been proceeding as if the challenge would fail," Boyle said.

Steven Worthley, a Tulare County supervisor whose district reaches into the forested area, added that while "the odds were not good going in" to the case, he believes the stage could be set for legislative action. Worthley contended that Congress should consider putting limits on monument size.

"Hopefully, there will be some rational examination of this," Worthley said.

So far, though, Western lawmakers have failed in their periodic efforts to scale back the presidential powers to create national monuments. For instance, the Western-dominated House Resources Committee approved in April 2002 a bill putting restrictions on monuments larger than 50,000 acres. That bill never advanced any further.

Almost exactly two years ago, U.S. District Judge Ricardo Urbina rejected the argument raised by Tulare County, Sierra Forest Products and the Sugarloafers Snowmobile Association, among others.

Last October, an appellate panel upheld Urbina's opinion.

For the Bush administration, the case has posed a conflict between ideology and presidential authority.

Agriculture Secretary Ann Veneman, who oversees the Forest Service, recused herself from monument decisions because she once represented its California opponents. The Forest Service's own monument planning has been criticized by environmentalists and California Attorney General Bill Lockyer.

But as a matter of upholding presidential authority, the Bush administration contended Clinton's use of the Antiquities Act could not be second-guessed by courts. In part, this is because the law doesn't waive the sovereign immunity that shields most governmental actions.

Moreover, Solicitor General Theodore Olson argued that Clinton's use of the Antiquities Act in creating the Giant Sequoia monument on April 15, 2000, fell well within a president's customary authority.

More than half a dozen previous legal challenges to presidential use of the 1906 law had likewise failed.

"Presidential actions are entitled to a strong presumption of regularity," Olson noted, so "the proclamation must be assumed to reflect a good-faith determination by the president that the Antiquities Act standards are satisfied."

The law lets presidents, acting without congressional approval, designate national monuments "which in all cases shall be confined to the smallest area compatible with ... proper care and management of the objects to be protected."

Tulare County officials contended the monument was unnecessarily big. It is about half of the size of Yosemite National Park. The monument is designed to protect some of the world's largest and oldest trees.

The sequoia groves themselves account for about 20,000 acres, or roughly 6%, of the total monument.

[nicmarlo]

Guest speaker: attorney, Pacific Legal Foundation, Emma Saures (?).

Role that the Wilderness Society, and others have played in forest:

"Must look at 20-25 years of activity. 1990 2 lawsuits filed by them...challenging salvage sales by BLM.

"Salvage: taking timber that had been burned or diseased, or overgrown, to clear and log them, before fires start.

She has seen Wilderness Society's names on legal documents filed to stop the salvage sales, at least half a dozen of them.

"Once the forest plans get approved, these groups files lawsuits to block the sales.

"Then they file lawsuits to stop BLM, etc., from going in to clear lands."

Can go to Pacificlegal.org for more information on what this attorney is saying.

[NormsRevenge]

The Wilderness Society

FRom their website

What We Do

We bring to bear our scientific expertise, analysis and bold advocacy at the highest levels to save, protect and restore America's wilderness areas.

[nicmarlo]

Emma says you just don't hear about private lands going up in smoke, because those lands are managed.

Even after it has become known what "let it burn" policies have done to forests, the eco groups continues to insist on not allowing managing forests/salvage sales/logging to occur.

[NormsRevenge]

The Wilderness Society's What We Do - "Winning Strategies"

Many of The Wilderness Society's founders and earliest leaders were scientists and policy experts. Aldo Leopold is remembered world-wide for his ground-breaking work on an ethical treatment of the land. Robert Marshall was among the first to suggest that large tracts of Alaska be preserved, and shaped the U.S. Forest Service's policy on wilderness designation and management.

The Wilderness Society remains true to their principles and dedicated to the concept that careful, credible science, bold advocacy, and unswerving vision are essential underpinnings of conservation policy.

---

A quote from Aldo Leopold

"It is inconceivable to me that an ethical relation to land can exist without love, respect, and admiration for land, and a high regard for its value. By value, I of course mean something far broader than mere economic value; I mean value in the philosophical sense."

---

ethical treatment of the land, a ground-breaker in his field.. What a load of BS!

[nicmarlo]

Question to Emma Saurez: What is wrong with a class action suit against [these groups]? She said it would be difficult because they hide behind different federal acts, i.e., endangered species act, etc., to justify what they are doing.

She said the passage of the Healthy Forest Initiative should help stop abuse of the legal process occurring by the [ecofreaks].

We need to put pressure on the state level. What these groups have done at the federal level, they are also doing at the state level (preventing salvage sales, even in private forests).

"The ones who were claiming to have asked for help, have actually, behind the scenes, been preventing help."

Bill says they're all covering their butts now after the devastation in California.

Emma's interview is over, but you are encouraged to contact her at www.pacificlegal.org

[nicmarlo]

Oh, I'm sure all those whose loved ones burned to death, or are now without their homes, will appreciate the touch-feely b.s.