The Physics of Extra-Terrestrial Civilizations

http://www.mkaku.org/ ^ | unk | Michio Kaku

[BadAndy]

Tyson's brain may not be operating properly. Build a sphere around the entire sun? Do you realize how much mass that would require? Probably the total of several thousand planets depending on the circumference. Not gonna happen.

[Just another Joe]

Klaatu Barada Nikto

Klaatu Barada Nik^#&*
Close enough.

[SengirV]

Today, every few weeks brings news of a new Jupiter-sized extra-solar planet being discovered, the latest being about 15 light years away orbiting around the star Gliese 876. The most spectacular of these findings was photographed by the Hubble Space Telescope, which captured breathtaking photos of a planet 450 light years away being sling-shot into space by a double-star system.

This was proven to be an unrelated star/brown drawf/etc... in the same field of view. I wonder how much other info is wrong in this article.

[Michael Barnes]

re #10 ...

Cool....now to read the long version!

[js1138]

I think that when we can resolve earth-sized planets from space-based telescopes, we will be able to tell from spectrographs which, if any, have the characteristics of life.

If we consider how brief has been our rise to civilization and how briefly we are likely to linger at this particular level of technology, I think it unlikely we will find anyone like ourselves. What exactly we might find, I have no idea.

[isom35]

here's a dyson:
http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/scans/other/dyson2.jpg

but here's a tyson:
http://sportsmed.starwave.com/media/pg2/2002/0607/photo/tyson_i.jpg

[dead]

The only logical way to reconcile Sagan's math with Fermi's observation is the Mead principle (also found in the Federation's constitution), the principle of "non-interference."

That’s not the only logical way to reconcile the conundrum.

Another reasonable explanation could be that the distances involved in interstellar (let alone intergallactic) travel is not as easily overcome in the real world as it is in the realm of science fiction.

In other words, they are out there (or were or will be) and we’ll never know about them. And vice versa.

[Hegewisch Dupa]

bttt

[Little Ray]

Dyson proposed breaking up Jupiter, Saturn, Neptune, and Uranus, just for starters. Each of these worlds is many thousands of times the mass of Earth. So there are your "several thousand planets." I think they'd have to do some large scale transmuting to do this, but that shouldn't be a problem for a fledgling class II civ.

Also, except in SF, the "sphere" is more a bunch of planetoids orbiting the sun in loose formation than it is a solid sphere. Talk about giving computers nightmares - imagine having to keep track of billions and billions of orbiting bolides...

If you want to get really ambitious, there is the Alderson disk... definitely for class III civilizations only.

Or if you're stingy, you can settle for a Ringworld. Assuming you can figure out how to make scrith...

[kidd]

But already, we can see the seeds of a Type I civilization. We see the beginning of ... a planetary economy (the forging of the European Union)...

The author views socialism and globalization as an advancement. There will be no advancement without an incentice for advancement. Socialism removes or significantly hinders that incentive.

[Liberal Classic]

Don't forget about Ringworld.

[Consort]

“...All the labors of the ages, all the devotion, all the inspiration, all the noonday brightness of human genius,...."

In other words, getting rid of the deadwood.

[Drammach]

Rather than the principle of non-interference, I suggest the priciple of non-interest..

We are simply beneath their notice.
Someone, I forget who, once suggested that will be thousands, possibly millions of years before we finally meet intelligent life in our universe.
That person then added that they will be so far beyond us, they will not even notice we are there, regardless of all our accomplishments and scientific advances.

If an advanced civilisation were to notice us, (say, a type 3) they would probably note that as a species of life, we fall within expected parameters, and having classified us, move on.
Even we humans, in our limited capacity tend to ignore anything that could not possibly challenge our existence.
I guess, in comparison, that puts humanity somewhere below viruses and bacterium.

[biblewonk]

"What if D-O-G spelled cat?" revenge of the Nerds.

[Consort]

What does it mean for a civilization to be a million years old?

An all-pervasive AARP.

[billorites]

In the year fortyfive fortyfive
you ain't gonna need your teeth
won't need your eyes
you won't find a thing to chew
nobody's gonna look at you.

[Al Simmons]

Good Point, Congressman. The above fanciful paper forgets several things that may fatally hamstring the "evolution" of said hypothesis:

a. Human Nature;

b. Human Nature;

c. The proliferation of basic stupidity;

d. The resultant proliferation of socialist utopias;

e. Human nature;

f. The Rapture

(Not necessarily in order of importance).

[Just another Joe]

Zager and Evans.
I use to sing that song during karaoke.

[Drammach]

Good point.. "Above fanciful paper" also sounds a bit like the fabled patent office attitude, assuming humanity already knows "all about" the science of physics of the universe.

Chances are, compared to even a Type 1 civilization, we don't know beans, yet..

[GeekDejure]

It will be a pitiful sight: any civilization which survives will be desperately huddled next to the dying embers of fading neutron stars and black holes.

It's always darkest before dawn, so if you're going to steal your neighbor's newspaper, that's the time to do it !!! ;-))

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