Posted on 11/04/2003 3:08:17 PM PST by quidnunc
Run for president, or write a letter to Santa and ask for all your wishes to come through.
1. I'm Jewish so I don't write to Saint Nicholas or that Christianized Germanic-Pagan take on a Winter Equinox.
2. President? I'm not cut out for that. Too much stress.
Lucikly, as with most FReepers, Santa will see just what a monumental idiot you are and simply ignore you.
I'm arrogant, not ignorant.
You are the one who started with the ad hominem attacks.
Who made a PC ignoramus the arbiter of the right?"
My exact thoughts as I read both this article, and your response to it.
Please find one PC thing that I wrote.
I was not the one whose attitude wreaks of Fannon.
to use the armed forces to "secure" borders is suicididal, as we would then set up a de facto warzone here at home.
WTC 1 and associated attacks in 1990-93, Oklahoma City, 9-11, Anthrax attacks...
It seems to me that the US is a warzone.
Protecting our borders will change this.
war, and subsequently American troops fighting that war, need to be fighting in the terrorist's home, which by the way, and if you had you an ounce of brains you would have figured this out by now, is what we're doing in Iraq and Afghanistan...forcing the terrorists to fight on their turf. There are increasing reports out of Iraq that more and more outsiders are coming in to fight the American troops.
If you could think outside of the media-imposed dialectic of isolationism vs offense, you would know that there is no incompatability between securing our borders and attacking the enemy. We did it in World War II.
"The undocumented aliens bring disease, cause environmental distruction, damage our culture, and drive down wages of Americans."
So, are you concerned with Muslim terrorists, or Mexican dishwashers?
There are multiple threats, not one or the other.
Quite clearly it's the latter, and you're so blinded by "those damned wetbacks", that you are willing to destroy our ability to fight a global war in order to address what constitutes a problem you have with Mexicans.
Just like dealing with Germany stopped our war on Japan?
I love the old "fall of Rome" argument! Gays were the cause of the fall of the Roman Empire! Immigrants were the cause of the fall of the Roman Empire! Immorality was the cause of the fall of the Roman Empire! Anything that existed at the time of the fall of the Roman Empire is credited with ending it.
Aside from a truly catastrophic event like the Mongol Invasions of the Kieven Rus or Khwarezim Empires, empires fall for many reasons. There are a number of long term issues destroying the foundation of power, while the end comes from a more specific cause.
Think of it as a an AIDS patient with Pnemonia and Cancer drowning in his own vomit induced by the AZT and chemotherapy. There were multiple causes, h owever, the ultimate cause of death was AIDS.
The US is being destroyed by a cultural assault. Our inability to attack or even name the Islamist threat is but one symptom.
Now, Islamism is being fought in America every day, people are neing arrested for conducting terrorism-related activities, I read about it all the time. You pretend it isn't happening. But there's a fine line between persecuting Islamicists, and violating the First Amendment.
We are nowhere near it when open Islamist groups are invited to attend Whitehouse events.
You can't get rid of malarial mosquitos with Isect repelent and flyswatters. You need to drain the swamps and use DDT.
And of course, only you and the rest of the people who know the secret handshake know about these organizations that are operating right under the nose of our entire government!
Grow up.
Anyone can get the sources. Emerson, Pipes, Gaffney have all written extensively on the issues, but the PC dolts and open-borders crowd dee-sixed any government action.
"Cosidering your inability to differentiate Islam from Islamism and your belief that the First Ammendment protects terrorist groups"
Are you Dean, or Kerry?
The psychological term for this is projecting. You are taking the position of the left, but ascribing their hatred to me.
Only in your dilusions have I failed to differentiate Islamic terrorism from Islam, as a matter of fact, that was the entire thrust of my response, but your obviously limited intellect failed to grasp the concepts addressed by my post.
Perhaps if you had flesh out your arguments instead of throwing around insults, someone with an Ivy League education and an IQ 3 deviations above the norm would get them. Dazzle me with your brilliance.
The war has been structured to draw conflict away from American shores, thus our military presence in Iraq, call it a rented battlefield if you wish, we are fighting one facet of this war in the cities, towns, and streets where the terrorists live...we are drawing them to us by threatening to topple any government that supports terrorism,. and to take apart their support network.
As well we should. However, none of this means that we should ignore threats at home.
The second, and most significant aspect of this war, is being fought with computers, tracking and shutting down as many sources of financing available to terrorist groups as possible; the decision to attack the Towers with commercial airliners was not made based on its symbolic value, it was a direct attack on our financial strenght and economic stability, and it was nearly succesful in crushing our economy. In turn, we have to return that favor.
Perhaps these computers should be turned on the Islamists with ties to the Whitehouse. Open Hizbullah and Islamic Jihad supporters are a threat.
We are in the very early stages of a war, we are fighting that war with a military devastated by Clinton's policies, and underfunded during his entire administration. The President himself warned us that this would be a long fight, and we have a long way to go.
1. I don't recall President bush calling for 6 more divisions, purging the military of the PC commissars, or stopping wasteful ideas like sexual integration. Heck, our defense budget is still 4% of GDP. That is the Cold War norm, not a hot war reality.
2. We have a Fifth column in the US. We need to go after them.
Ignorance Lew, is most often than not a side-effect of the willingness to read only those things that support your ideas, and ignoring challenges to them. That appears to be the case with you.
Considering that I read the NY Times, NY Sun, WSJ, Weekly Standard, TAC, and NR I read a large spectrum. Admittedly, I stay away from the Nation and American Renaissance
but I have only so much time in the day.
As for intelligent debate, stop hruling petty insults and being blinded by partisanship and political correctness. Then we can have a debate.
Entered Lew.
Do you understand that term?
"the attacks of September 11th would not have occurred"
That's just another asinine comment from another keyboard jock with an out of control ego.
They could have boarded the airplanes in Canada, and attacked before they landed, they could have boarded in one of many countries in Europe and arranged to make a connecting flight to the West coast and attacked then.
You know what you are Lew?
Just another "blame America first" a##hole.
The US WAS a war zone Lew, that's not the case now.
Oklahoma City was carried out by an American citizen, want to cut lose some storm troopers on all American citizens Lew?
"...there is no incompatibility between securing our borders and attacking the enemy."
Nope there isn't, is there Lew?
But you want to tie up troops at our borders, and let the enemy attack us HERE!
"The US is being destroyed by a cultural assault."
The only place that the US is being destroyed is in your fertile imagination Lew.
"You can't get rid of malarial mosquitoes with Insect repellent and flyswatters. You need to drain the swamps and use DDT."
You work for Orkin Lew?
We are discussing politics here, stay on topic.
"...but the PC dolts and open-borders crowd..."
PC dolts of course being those people who understand that the right to free political speech, even that political speech that we find offensive, can be freely exercised in the US. That's why, in spite of the fact that the main goal of communism was to destroy our way of life, there is a Communist Party in the US.
You see Lew, in America it's legal to express "support", in words and thoughts, Islamicist groups and their agenda, as long as you do not take direct action via acting to violate US laws.
In your storm trooper world, this precious right would be violated in the name of national security, and Ben Franklin would cancel your ticket, you know the old giving up a little freedom in the name of security saying of Ben's, don't you Lew?
"The psychological term for this is projecting."
No, the term for what you did is "lying", you did it by accrediting words and stances to me that I have not taken.
You work for the Old Grey Lady Lew?
"Perhaps these computers should be turned on the Islamists with ties to the Whitehouse. Open Hizbullah and Islamic Jihad supporters are a threat."
You afraid they're going to steal the china Lew?
Force Laura to wear a Burka?
Bugger Barney?
I know...you're afraid that they will talk Bush into converting to Islam, and using US Air Force stealth bombers on the next 9/11-like attack.
You really need to stop smoking crack with Gaffney Lew..
"We have a Fifth column in the US. We need to go after them."
Again, more calls for storm troopers to work on America, will they wear a swastika Lew?
Maybe, we should force all Muslims to make themselves easily identifiable so that we can "keep an eye on them".
I vote for making them wear a big, yellow crescent moon patch on their clothes.
What do you think about that idea?
" don't recall President bush calling for 6 more divisions, purging the military of the PC commissars, or stopping wasteful ideas like sexual integration. Heck, our defense budget is still 4% of GDP. That is the Cold War norm, not a hot war reality."
Not a hot war at all, not a cold one either, but a war unlike any we have ever fought before, but you, being the master military strategist-economist-know-it-all that you are, have failed to see that simple fact.
"Perhaps if you had flesh out your arguments instead of throwing around insults, someone with an Ivy League education and an IQ 3 deviations above the norm would get them."
But I was talking to you, so I had to keep things simple.
Lew, quit blaming America for being attacked, that's your first step in the twelve step recovery program for obsessive hind-sighters.
To affect the sorts of changes you keep blathering about, would change the face of this nation, and the terrorists would declare victory.
You can't go on playing this "if we would have just..." game, as my father in law says all the time "and if my bubbie had a schmekel she's be my saddie".
"My name is Ron."
I know that.
Just another "blame America first" a##hole.
Grow up.
The true patriot finds and removes threats. He does not wish them away.
But you want to tie up troops at our borders, and let the enemy attack us HERE!
We are at war. Is there some reason why we cannot have a 16 division Army, 9 battalion Marine Corps, and also have 100,000 border patrol? Over time, we can use UAV's and other technological measures.
We could integrate aerial border patrol for anti-terror, anti-invasion, and anti-narcotics roles
"The US is being destroyed by a cultural assault."
The only place that the US is being destroyed is in your fertile imagination Lew.
Name one politician who has stood up for the founding principles of America and does not have high unfavoribility ratings. I can't. The same is truefor a politician who stands up for our tradition culture.
The left isdestroing America by undermining the ideological underpinings of America in the minds of its populace.
Go read Antonio Gramsci and members of the Frankfurt School.
"You can't get rid of malarial mosquitoes with Insect repellent and flyswatters. You need to drain the swamps and use DDT."
You work for Orkin Lew?
Unlike you, I understand the concept of an analogy.
"...but the PC dolts and open-borders crowd..."
PC dolts of course being those people who understand that the right to free political speech, even that political speech that we find offensive, can be freely exercised in the US. That's why, in spite of the fact that the main goal of communism was to destroy our way of life, there is a Communist Party in the US.
The CP was disbanded on a number of occasions. The reality is that thye were an openly seditious conspiracy to committ treason.
Recruiting spies and distributing money from enemy regimes is not free speech.
Indoctrinating and training future terrorists is not covered by freedom of religion.
You see Lew, in America it's legal to express "support", in words and thoughts, Islamicist groups and their agenda, as long as you do not take direct action via acting to violate US laws.
People who gave money to Islamist terrorist groups like Hamas, Hizbullah, and Islamic Jihad broke the law. Yet their partners and fund-raising networks are not touched because we are afraid to do so.
In your storm trooper world, this precious right would be violated in the name of national security, and Ben Franklin would cancel your ticket, you know the old giving up a little freedom in the name of security saying of Ben's, don't you Lew?
Allow me to quote another founder:
"The circumstances that endanger the safety of nations are infinite, and for this reason no constitutional shackles can wisely be imposed on the power to which the care of it is committed." --Alexander Hamilton
Mind you that Hamilton was an opponent of the Alien and Sedition Act, which the Federalist Party (ie that of Washington, Hamilton, Adams, Livingston, Jay...) proposed.
No, the term for what you did is "lying", you did it by accrediting words and stances to me that I have not taken.
Again with the projecting?
You work for the Old Grey Lady Lew?
I prefer The Sun
"Perhaps these computers should be turned on the Islamists with ties to the Whitehouse. Open Hizbullah and Islamic Jihad supporters are a threat."
You afraid they're going to steal the china Lew? .......
I know...you're afraid that they will talk Bush into converting to Islam, and using US Air Force stealth bombers on the next 9/11-like attack.
Ruductio ad absurdum only works when you use the arguement of the other side. AS you do not, you are simply being absurd.
Just to make sure that you understand my arguement, it is that the failure to specify the nature of our enemy is hobbling our effort.
To a varying degree this position has been asserte by The Weekly Standard, National Review, The New Republic, and even The American Conservative. In other words, neocons, fusionists, neoliberals, and paleoconservatives understand the position.
Either you are being silly, PC, or are a mere shill for the administration.
"We have a Fifth column in the US. We need to go after them."
Again, more calls for storm troopers to work on America, will they wear a swastika Lew?
There is an old Newsgroup rule that the first one to allude to the Nazis has lost the arguement.
There is another saying of defense lawyers: "If they have the facts, they use the facts. If they have the legal precident, they use the law. If they have neither, they pound the table."
I hope that you know a good carpenter, because your table is cracking.
There is nothing relating to storm troopers in reading the PUBLIC e-mails and sermons of Islamists and detaining those (especially non-citizens) who are inciting violence, raising money for terrorist groups, or working to undermine our war effort out of an ideological affinity for out enemies.
All of the above can already be pursuid with a few changes of proceedure. There is nothing unConstitutional about any of these proposals. We simply lack the will to follow the Constitution.
Not a hot war at all, not a cold one either, but a war unlike any we have ever fought before, but you, being the master military strategist-economist-know-it-all that you are, have failed to see that simple fact.
We have soldiers dying daily. We are deployed in many countries. Sorry, this is a hot war. At times it is conventional, diplomatic, and or unconventional. It is still a war.
Lew, quit blaming America for being attacked, that's your first step in the twelve step recovery program for obsessive hind-sighters.
I suppose that Admiral Nimitz should have gone through a 12-step program for trying to improve security around Pearl Harbor?
To affect the sorts of changes you keep blathering about, would change the face of this nation, and the terrorists would declare victory.
You sound like a parody of the anarchists, commuinists, and revolutionaries who aid the Fifth Column.
Defending ourselves up to the limits imposed by the Consitution, and doing away with 60 years of liberal damage will save America.
The terrorists love a weak America.
You can't go on playing this "if we would have just..." game, as my father in law says all the time "and if my bubbie had a schmekel she's be my saddie".
1. Zeyde is the Yiddish term for Grandfather.
My mother used to teach Yiddish at CUNY.
2. Look up George Santayana on failure to remember history.
Good night Luis
Your contention was that if we had done what you suggested to do, the attacks on 9/11 would have never happened.
Now you flip flop and make some other argument, failing to acknowledge the fact that your supposition was absolutely wrong.
Enough said.
Ron
PS. REgarding the arguement that our Southern border is no threat, read the following article about OTMs, Arabs still enter U.S. illegally from Mexico .
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