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Abraham Lincoln Was Elected President 143 Years Ago Tonight
http://www.nytimes.com ^ | 11/06/2003 | RepublicanWizard

Posted on 11/06/2003 7:31:54 PM PST by republicanwizard

Astounding Triumph of Republicanism.

THE NORTH RISING IN INDIGNATION AT THE MENACES OF THE SOUTH

Abraham Lincoln Probably Elected President by a Majority of the Entire Popular Vote

Forty Thousand Majority for the Republican Ticket in New-York

One Hundred Thousand Majority in Pennsylvania

Seventy Thousand Majority in Massachusetts

Corresponding Gains in the Western and North-Western States

Preponderance of John Bell and Conservatism at the South

Results of the Contest upon Congressional and Local Tickets

The canvass for the Presidency of the United States terminated last evening, in all the States of the Union, under the revised regulation of Congress, passed in 1845, and the result, by the vote of New-York, is placed beyond question at once. It elects ABRAHAM LINCOLN of Illinois, President, and HANNIBAL HAMLIN of Maine, Vice-President of the United States, for four years, from the 4th March next, directly by the People.

The election, so far as the City and State of New-York are concerned, will probably stand, hereafter as one of the most remarkable in the political contests of the country; marked, as it is, by far the heaviest popular vote ever cast in the City, and by the sweeping, and almost uniform, Republican majorities in the country.

RELATED HEADLINES

ELECTION DAY IN THE CITY: All Quiet and Orderly At the Polls: Progress of the Voting in the Several Wards: The City After Nightfall: How the News Was Received: Unbounded Enthusiasm of the Republicans and Bell-Everett Headquarters: The Times Office Beseiged: Midnight Display of Wide-Awakes: Bonfires and Illuminations

(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...


TOPICS: Miscellaneous
KEYWORDS: anniversary; bush; civilwar; dixielist; history; lincoln; republican
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To: Grand Old Partisan
Andrew Johnson was indeed Abraham Lincoln's choice -- worst decison he ever made. Much better would have been Hannibal Hamlin again or even Lincoln's first choice, who turned him down -- Ben Butler.

While I think that our friend nolu chan has the better of you by exposition of Gideon Welles's memorandum of Radicalism, I tend to agree with you that an elevation of Beast Butler would have been more.......clarifying........

Civilized men act in a civilized manner and look for laws to obey. What Welles describes is the spirit of ideological extremism, new to the world when he wrote, but wearily familiar to us both in its intellectual and moral seaminess and in its massively bloody consequences. It is the spirit of the adept thug, the bully, and the self-justifying murderer.

901 posted on 11/28/2003 4:13:46 PM PST by lentulusgracchus
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To: x
Secession and the formation of the Confederacy marked the end of the older American Republic in any case. Whatever came afterwards would have been different from what came before and in many ways worse.

Hello, x. I see nobody has replied to you on this point, which they ought to have done.

Much of the argument about the American Civil War revolves around a key point made by the Southern apologists, that even the Northern Peoples never approved in convention assembled the changes Lincoln sought to impose on the Constitution and on the relationship between the central administration and the States. Lincoln sought to eclipse their authority as much as that of the Peoples of the South. Hence my argument elsewhere and earlier, that Iowa farm boys lost as much as Alabamians, by fighting for Mr. Lincoln -- they became their own worst enemies, and fought on the wrong side of the war. Failing all else, and granting you that Easterners by then were sufficiently deracinated in their understanding of individual responsibility and freedom to have lost the idea of America, having already compromised themselves, in vast droves, in millions of dirty little compromises with employers and ward heelers; Midwesterners nevertheless should have had more sense than to ratify anything like the Fourteenth Amendment.

If Lincoln had simply done nothing and let the rebels have their own way on all matters, he'd likewise be reviled by people today and blamed for what happened.

Not necessarily. He certainly would stand better with Southerners, 140 years of relentless schoolhouse propaganda notwithstanding. You must equate "people today" with the business interests of the East Coast, and what Ivy Leaguers think.

902 posted on 11/28/2003 4:26:55 PM PST by lentulusgracchus
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To: republicanwizard; zarf
If they come, I'll ask the AdminMod to kick them off the thread.

Go ahead. I'm waiting. Do your worst.

903 posted on 11/28/2003 4:29:37 PM PST by lentulusgracchus
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To: Non-Sequitur
You are aware that just about everything in your post was either incorrect or an exaggeration, aren't you?

Of course YOU'RE wrong and of course that's why you wrote a broad/generalized, libelous, one sentence piece of crap instead of being specific,

904 posted on 11/28/2003 4:52:57 PM PST by iconoclast (Just kidding, I'm a paleo till I die.)
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To: republicanwizard
If the attitudes that many of these posters express is indicative of what the beliefs of the Republican Party, conservatism, and FreeRepublic are, then slowly but surely I, and many like me, will come to disassociate ourselves with any of the three.

What a blessed day that would be ... but all indicators are to the contrary.

905 posted on 11/28/2003 5:01:06 PM PST by iconoclast (I hate these tags ... I always forget to dump them.)
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To: subedei; republicanwizard
How sad. You two seem to have about a second grade understanding of history.
906 posted on 11/28/2003 5:03:08 PM PST by iconoclast (I hate these tags ... I always forget to dump them.)
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To: Grand Old Partisan
[GOP] Thaddeus Stevens, one of the best defense lawyers in the country, offered to defend Jefferson Davis should he come to trial.

It would have been priceless to see Thaddeus Stevens argue that secession was lawful. If Stevens were to have defended Jefferson Davis, he would have had to so argue as directed by the client. Not to worry, Charles O'Conor had it covered and there was no way the government was going to take the case to trial.

[GOP] Much better [as Lincoln's choice for VP] would have been Hannibal Hamlin again or even Lincoln's first choce, who turned him down -- Ben Butler.

In his time of need, Lincoln could indeed, have sought Thurlow Weed, or even William Tweed.

"Spoons" Butler was only a petty thief compared to those New York Yankee big-leaguers.

LINK

In Lowell Butler studied at Lowell High School; he also established a practice of stealing items from rooms of the boarding house tenants while they were at work according to one of Butler's biographers [Chester G. Hearn, When The Devil Came Down to Dixie: Bent Butler in New Orleans (1997), pp. 8-9]. Hearn goes on to suggest that Butler's early proclivities were life-long:

Butler died on January 11, 1893, an immensely wealthy man whose estate topped $7million. Nobody has ever been able to explain how Butler, who came from simple means and spent the bulk of his career alternating between law and politics, amassed so huge a fortune (Ibid., p. 6).

907 posted on 11/28/2003 7:55:44 PM PST by nolu chan
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To: rustbucket
Prince Albert, the consort of Victoria, was the son of the Duke of SaxeCoburg and his elder brother was for a time the Duke. In Great Britain the SaxeCoburgs now go by the name of Windsor.

Hmm. I thought the Windsors were Hanovers. At least, I think I've seen the Georgian kings styled "the House of Hanover", from their style as the Elector of Hanover. George II fought in Germany in 1757 (the last time a British monarch appeared on the field in person) under his butterscotch-colored banner as the Elector of Hanover; and flags of the Georgian period sometimes show a butterscotch-colored flag with the Grand Union quartered (as in one representation of the signing of the Declaration of Independence) as a British color, representing the personal union in George I, II, and III (and perhaps IV?) of Hanover (and Hesse and Nassau) and the Kingdom of Great Britain.

I'll grant you that Victoria's children might perhaps rightfully have been called Saxe-Coburg; but withal, she was still a Hanoverian queen. Either way, the family changed its name during the Great War, just as the Mountbattens did during WW2 to expunge their Nazi family links (which Fleet Street still tries to dredge up).

Some knowledgeable Tory, please help me out if you know better.

908 posted on 11/28/2003 7:57:12 PM PST by lentulusgracchus
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To: Grand Old Partisan; nolu chan
Citing him or his deeds as an authority on anything is absurd.

Citing Grand Old Partisan or his deeds as an authority on anything is absurd.

I have spoken.

;^D

909 posted on 11/28/2003 8:01:52 PM PST by lentulusgracchus
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To: nolu chan
Andrew Johnson was by no means the worst president ever. There could be various nominees for that honor ......

May I nominate your obvious oversight, The Rapist? He would be bound to be "worst" in some categories. I don't recall any other presidents selling their offices to the Chinese government, for example.

People have never thought much of Warren Harding, either -- whose personality type, btw, was very close to Slick's and FDR's. Only Harding and Roosevelt never got "caught" the way Slick did, with their breeches down, and neither ever sold his office or got caught lying to a jury.

910 posted on 11/28/2003 8:06:52 PM PST by lentulusgracchus
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To: nolu chan
Nobody has ever been able to explain how Butler, who came from simple means and spent the bulk of his career alternating between law and politics, amassed so huge a fortune.....

Knowing that, would anyone ever have to explain? -- LOL!

In his time of need, Lincoln could indeed, have sought Thurlow Weed......

Knowing what he did about Weed, whom he used as a dirty-tricks errand-boy (e.g. in the days before Sumter), I think Lincoln would rather have paid him to stay out of town.

911 posted on 11/28/2003 8:12:10 PM PST by lentulusgracchus
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To: lentulusgracchus
I'm no Tory, but here is an appropriate link: Saxe-Coburg.

I had the same impression you did about the Hanover line.

912 posted on 11/28/2003 8:19:07 PM PST by rustbucket
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To: rustbucket
Thank you, sir, for the useful link and the clarification. So now their family are the Mountbatten-Windsors? Of the House of Windsor? At least it's intelligible, unlike some of the Continental lineages of the 15th-19th centuries.
913 posted on 11/28/2003 8:39:23 PM PST by lentulusgracchus
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To: lentulusgracchus
Queen Victoria's married name (Wettin) would make a good trivia question. As the site I posted said, she didn't know what it was until she had it researched.
914 posted on 11/28/2003 9:03:26 PM PST by rustbucket
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To: nolu chan
Thaddeus Stevens offered to defend Jefferson Davis against a treason charge, and would have tried to get him off on a technicality, not by arguing that his actions were legal. Stevens was against punishing anyome, though he did want land (over 200 acres per person) of rebellious plantation lords given to the ex-slaves.

Lincoln did indeed offer the 1864 VP nomination to Butler, who turned him down, so he had to go with another War Democrat, Andrew Johnson.

As to Gideion Welles, there were indeed some Republicans who sided with Andrew Johnson (seven Republican Senators voted to acquit him), but they were a small minority. Much more indicative of GOP sentiment toward the Tennesseee Democrat was Charles Sumner's take on Johnson replacing Lincoln: "By the murder of Lincoln the rebellion has vaulted into the presidential chair."
915 posted on 11/29/2003 8:32:27 AM PST by Grand Old Partisan (You can read about my history of the GOP at www.republicanbasics.com)
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To: Grand Old Partisan
Thaddeus Stevens offered to defend Jefferson Davis against a treason charge, and would have tried to get him off on a technicality, not by arguing that his actions were legal.

As defense counsel, Thaddeus Stevens would have had no legal authority to dictate the defense. He would have been legally obligated to follow the will of the client.

Clearly, the defense set forth by Jefferson Davis and Charles O'Conor and the Dream Team of that day was the correct one. The Government, knowing they would lose, caved in.

As for giving away land, why not welcome the ex-slaves with a grant of land in the North or in the territories. There was plenty of land to be offered. When they could not unconstitutionally give away somebody else's land, they never did give up a square inch of their own land, now did they? Rather they passed laws to keep Blacks from settling in their states.

If Andrew Johnson was part of the Rebellion, please explain why Abraham Lincoln and the Republican Party made him the Vice-President.

Welles offered a rather good description of the the plans and designs of the Radicals led by Thaddeus Stevens.

916 posted on 11/29/2003 11:07:14 AM PST by nolu chan
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To: Grand Old Partisan
Much more indicative of GOP sentiment toward the Tennesseee Democrat was Charles Sumner's take on Johnson replacing Lincoln: "By the murder of Lincoln the rebellion has vaulted into the presidential chair."

Some rebel. From the Memphis Avalanche as reported in the January 9, 1861, Jackson Mississippian:

Andy Johnson Burnt in Effigy in Nashville!

HUNG AT GRAND JUNCTION

The defunct body shipped North after being shot, drawn, and quartered -- "unwept, unhonored, and hung," and will be hung at Jackson to-morrow.


917 posted on 11/29/2003 12:58:37 PM PST by rustbucket
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To: lentulusgracchus
Lincoln sought to eclipse their authority as much as that of the Peoples of the South. Hence my argument elsewhere and earlier, that Iowa farm boys lost as much as Alabamians, by fighting for Mr. Lincoln -- they became their own worst enemies, and fought on the wrong side of the war.

Amen. Bump.

918 posted on 11/29/2003 4:08:29 PM PST by 4CJ ('Scots vie 4 tavern juices' - anagram by paulklenk, 22 Nov 2003)
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To: rustbucket
"Some rebel."

That article is from 1861. Sumner made his comment in 1865. Point is, once the war was over, Johnson, a Democrat, allied himself with the ex-Confwederate Democrats.
919 posted on 11/30/2003 9:22:16 AM PST by Grand Old Partisan (You can read about my history of the GOP at www.republicanbasics.com)
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To: nolu chan
"If Andrew Johnson was part of the Rebellion, please explain why Abraham Lincoln and the Republican Party made him the Vice-President."

During the Civil War, Andrew Johnson was the only loyal southern Senator, even though as a Democrat he had campaigned for Breckinridge and had criticized Lincoln during the campaign. A clue to his thinking is his middle name -- Jackson -- named after another southern-born nationalist Democrat. There were also two or three loyal southern Representatives, including one the rebels imprisoned rather than allow take his seat in Washington. Anyway, Andrew Johnson became President Lincoln's Military Governor of Tennessee, and Lincoln, wanting a loyal Democrat as his 1864 running mate, chose Johnson. Johnson revealed himself to be a die-hard Democrat after the war, allied with the ex-rebel Democrats to preserve as much as possible of pre-war power structure as possible.

Stevens' plan was to confiscate land held by rebels, which was already authorized by the Confiscstion Act of 1862, and give it to the slaves who actually worked it (and also sell it for a nominal fee to the millions of landless whites). Anyway, this "40 acres and a mule" program was never enacted.

920 posted on 11/30/2003 9:41:09 AM PST by Grand Old Partisan (You can read about my history of the GOP at www.republicanbasics.com)
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