Choose the Right Gun

King Features Syndicate ^ | 11/12/03 | Charley Reese

[ExSoldier]

Before you go to the Smith compact 99 try the Glock M27 in shorty forty. I carry MY M27 everywhere, unless I think I'm heading into real Indian Country when I think the superb stopping power of a 45 will deter as much as extra hits because PERCEPTION is everything! And recoil can be tamed...PLEASE don't worry! I have taught 12 year old girls to shoot a 44 magnum accurately and without fear. My own 22 yr old daughter has a Ruger SP101 in .357 magnum I bought her for her college graduation...but she learned to handle it at age 10. Ok?

[clee1]

Yeah, I've tried the Glocks. For some reason I just can't put a name to.... I don't like 'em. I suspect that it has something to do with the polymer - just doesn't feel right to me.

I'm not terribly worried about recoil; like I say, I own a 1911, and formerly a .357 Mag. I also used to own a 410 gauge "survival pistol". I've fired just about every handgun caliber there is - even the .454 Casul. Now that sucker would really benefit from a set of wheels and a lanyard!

My recoil concern is primarily based on quickly recovering for a second shot, as my trained preference is for two shots in rapid succession. However, the glaser rounds have a much lighter recoil than most cartridges; I think I might like that in .45 ACP with a smaller frame. However, I practice with standard ball; glasers are to damned expensive for plinking.

[section9]

I've heard that if you are trained, the .45 1911 simply can't be beat. More kickback than a 9 mm, but a guaranteed manstopper.

The acid test for the Baretta came in Afghanistan, and the Special Forces and infantry officers found it wanting. You'd put a couple of 9 mm rounds into a jihadi and he'd keep coming, as if he were a Somali technical high on khat. However, there were those who carried the Model 1911. Instant drop: no more jihadi. You didn't even need to try for a "Night of the Living Dead" headshot. One tap to the chest or the gut would do it.

Tommy Franks himself decided to carry the Kimber M-1911, which, iirc, has been preferred by .45 enthusiasts for some time now.

BTW, is Colt Arms still in the M-1911 production business?

Be Seeing You,

Chris

[section9]

I have a Savage 12-guage pump action at home.

Right now, it's in a closet. I had a local gunsmith, who is a big wheel in the Industry, check it out (went to his place, btw. He has a huge firearms collection going back to the French and Indian War). He checked the shotgun. The action is okay and the firearm itself is in good working order. Mike recommended one thing:

As it is a production model shotgun, the barrel is too long for home self-defense. He recommended that I replace the long barrel with a machined shorter barrel, which I may do at some point.

However, for tactical purposes, what is the best kind of shot for home defense, if I'm, say, shooting around a corner (assuming I use the focused barrel insert that narrows the spread of the shot)? Will pretty much anything drop a perp within twenty feet, or is there a shot that most FR bulletheads prefer?

Inquiring minds want to know!

Be Seeing You,

Chris

[blackie]

Right-on!

Molon Labe!

[WoofDog123]

"First you have to identify the target to make sure it is not a family member, which may not be too easy to do in poor light"

Also critically important to consider the backstop, as many homes have frighteningly insubstantial walls.

[Elric@Melnibone]

Now, a 4 guage is my idea of adequate home defense.

Why stop there? How's about a 2-gauge?

I think they used to use them for elephants.

[ExSoldier]

Funny, I have exactly the same problems with Smith & Wesson autos. I think they make a superior revolver product but I just don't care for the "ergonomics" of their autos. I have had some others on this forum suggest they won't buy another Smith gun until they reaffirm their stand on the 2nd Amendment after their blatant betrayal of gunowners with the Clinton administration. I can respect that too. The Smith M99 is a total knockoff of the Glock 27. But I can see where you're coming from.

Glad you clarified yourself on recoil. You are obviously an experienced handgunner. I too was trained (and it is a part of the regimen with which I now train others) to shoot twice, observe the effect and if none segue into a "failure to stop" drill calling for the next round to be sent into the cranial vault. "Two to the chest and one to the head stops 'em dead!" I shoot just enough of what I carry (Glaser or Magsafe) to know where the rounds will go at various standard ranges. After that, and for practice I go with reloads I buy locally.

[toddst]

I've heard that if you are trained, the .45 1911 simply can't be beat. More kickback than a 9 mm, but a guaranteed manstopper.

Hello Chris,

In terms of stopping power the .45 ACP is excellent (especially when the 230 grain bullet is used.) Generally the .45 provides 90% one-shot stops, with the 9 mm running about 50%. The difference in training between the two cartridges in not significant - basically amounts to some adjustment for increased recoil of the .45 ACP. Not difficult.

The acid test for the Baretta came in Afghanistan, and the Special Forces and infantry officers found it wanting. You'd put a couple of 9 mm rounds into a jihadi and he'd keep coming . . . However, there were those who carried the Model 1911. Instant drop: no more jihadi. One tap to the chest or the gut would do it.

It's true that some SF operators carry the .45 ACP due to more efficient stopping power. A wise decision IMO. especially at short ranges in the midst of firefight chaos.

Tommy Franks himself decided to carry the Kimber M-1911, which, iirc, has been preferred by .45 enthusiasts for some time now.

Kimber builds a high quality weapon. However, there are many who prefer the SIG P220 which allows for a double-action first quick shot followed by single-action for the remaining rounds. The SIG has no mechanical safety to disengage in firing the first shot, which allows a round to be carried safely in the chamber, with the hammer down. The 1911 design requires a chambered first round be carried in "condition one" which is cocked and locked (hammer back.)

BTW, is Colt Arms still in the M-1911 production business?

Yes. They are offering WW II versions plus others identified as "General Service Pistols" per Colonel Jeff Cooper's specifications. Excellent weapons.

Regards, Todd

[SBprone]

"for tactical purposes, what is the best kind of shot for home defense"

This is a Ford vs Chevy kind of question. Some advocate birdshot which is devastating within a dozen feet or so while others advocate 00 or 000 buck or even slugs. Usually the choice is based on wanting adequate penetration while trying to limit overpenetration of walls etc.

The critical fact is this: Anything that will reliably penetrate vital organs at 20 feet or so will also penetrate a modern sheetrock wall with plenty of ballistic energy to spare. The bottom line for a shotgunner is that you are responsible for the destination of every pellet that goes downrange. Most folks who consider this question at length choose something from number 4 buck to 00 buck.

When I still relied on my short 870 for home defense I would load one round of birdshot on top of three or four rounds of 00 buck. With a pump gun that permits you to quickly jack the bird round out of the gun if it seems inappropriate in the circumstances. Shotguns are very versatile that way but they are surprisingly technical to master in a self defense situation. If you can find Louis Awerbuck's excellent book on shotgun fighting you may be surprised at how much there is to it.

[section9]

Thank you both.

Be Seeing You,

Chris

[clee1]

Yeah, I'm a little miffed w/ Smith myself, but I won't let that stop me from buying the most suitable hardware for the purpose. Now that I think about it, I haven't fired a Smith auto in several years(their 1st 10mm???), and I didn't really like the feel of that one either. And I absolutely HATE Sigs - feels like I'm holding a brick.

I am a moderately experienced handgunner, having taken the time and effort to get decent training and practice. I would say I'm "experienced enough". I have been a periodic shooting enthusiast since I was a little kid growing up with a true "gun-nut" father.

However, long arms are really more my speed. I have a Browning 16 ga auto for household defense as well as numerous other rifles and shotguns for various purposes. I like to hunt, having grown up in a time/place where thats what fathers and sons did.

I used to do my own reloads, pistol and rifle, until I discovered about 10 years ago that I could get high quality ammunition cheaper in both time and money than I could do myself in the quantities that I use. I still have the equipment and loading data in case the balloon goes up. Glasers are prohibitivly expensive, but I did put a couple of clips through my .380 when I decided to "carry" them, to get an idea of their ballistic characteristics.

You sound as though you do quite a bit of shootingg yourself.

[ExSoldier]

I HATE Sigs too! Can't stand the shape of the grip. lol How funny. But I'm seriously thinking of that new Smith and wesson .44 magnum....the L329 with a 4" bbl. 27oz titanium cylinder....hmmmm

I was an NRA member by the time I was 18 months old, my dad having seen his family wiped out in mother Russia by the communists in 1917....he was a distant relative to the Czar. I understood the connection of freedom to guns before I could walk. I had my first .22 rifle at age eight, the stock sawed off by one of his workment to accomodate my short stature. But he had so many medical problems, he couldn't even walk with me in the woods....much less hunt. I envy you your hunting with your dad. I hope you know how fortunate you are.

I had to wait until I got to college to drop my first deer. My roomies and I lived in a house we rented just off campus in Tuscaloosa Alabama, (BAMA!!) and hunting was how we fed ourselves. We each had $25 a week tax free to live on courtesy of Army ROTC and that was for BEER. So my roomies taught the little city boy from Miami FL how to hunt and move in the woods. When I became an infantry lieutenant a few years later, it really stood me in good stead.

I'm an expert with the M16 and my M1A; the latter thanks to my friends in the various specops branches whose snipers took me under their wing because my best friend was one of them and an officer. I have a Benelli shotgun (M121 the forerunner of the Super 90 assault version) that I'm passable good with...but I'm primarily a handgunner. I killed my first Elk at 25 meters with a .44magnum Ruger Super Blackhawk. Got almost 800 lbs of meat off of him.

I own a Ruger SP101 which is going to my 22 yr old daughter as a college graduation present along with two spped loaders and a custom handmade leather holster by Sam Andrews (check out AndrewsCustomLeather.com) I once told Sam he ought to put the word "Unlimited" at the end of his company name..LOL I also have a Browning Hi-Power in 9mm and that's going to the nephew who lives in Boston and has turned into a high falutin LIBERAL who has a job working the Democrat National Convention while he attends Georgetown University. The only sane thing his ultra liberal parents (my sister) ever did was get me to teach this kid how to shoot when he was a kid. I'm giving him a nice gun to remind him his buddies in the RAT Party want to take it away! He's got to move out of MA before he can take possession....And he can never sell it. It has to come back to me first. If I'm dead, it has to go to my daughter. At least I know SHE will appreciate it.

I have been an NRA certified Instructor for many years and I'm also an IDPA Certified Range Officer...and of course I'm a IDPA competitor every month. When I met my wife, our "First Date" was to Church and our second date was to the Shooting Range and she knew if she wanted me my guns and my 2nd Amendment activism had to be part of the package. When we got married, I bought her a Beretta M84 .380 and a CCW Permit, here in Florida. She almost immediately decided the .380 was too inaccurate and almost demanded MY Colt Government Model be given to her. So I bought her a Colt Combat Commander, put tritium sights on it and it's been hers ever since. She's a quilter and shoots once a year to placate me. I recognize she might not share all my passions so she quilts, I shoot and we've lived happily for 15 years. But I wouldn't want to be the guy who tries to mug her! You know, I'm going to copy this entire post and put it on my "ABOUT" page. LOL

[toddst]

Chris,

I agree with the shotgun recommendations, but would like to add that I believe the "safe" loads for indoor use are high-brass 12 gauge with number 6 shot. They are devastating on a human opponent at indoor ranges, yet limit wall penetration out at 25 feet or so. Also, don't restrict the patten width, use an open choke only for indoors.

As was suggested, load the number 6 shot shells first, then back up with some OO buckshot.

I use a Benelli Super 90 for home (and neighborhood) defense. I have a sleeve on the stock with six additional shells, split between OO buckshot and slugs, in case the fight turns especially nasty and/or it's necessary to stop a vehicle.

[ought-six]

The best shot for home defense is 00-buck; 000-buck will work, as well; but I personally prefer 00-buck.

[section9]

Please excuse me for not getting back earlier, but I appreciate the input from both of you.

Shotgun shells for the holidays, plus some range time!

Oh, and Todd, once again, thanks for the input on the M-1911. I have a sentimental attachment to Colt, of course, as the .45 was one of the first sidearms I shot back in the seventies. A newfound appreciation of sidearms has me looking at the M-1911 for target and home use. I understand, however, that Kimber has been making some of the better 1911 designs of late, and have been tending towards Kimber as my pistol of choice. What say you gentlemen?

Be Seeing You,

Chris

[toddst]

Hello Chris,

Both Colt & Kimber are producing good quality variants of the 1911 A-1's in .45 ACP. Both offer many options and are good values for the price in my opinion.

I haven't owned a Kimber but friends who do are pleased with their weapons. Below are their website addresses where options are described (although not prices:)

http://www.colt.com/CMCI/pistols.asp

http://www.kimberamerica.com/index2.php

I'm the most familiar with Gunsite's GSP offering, which is now available directly from Colt. I had mine built by the gunsmity at Gunsite to Colonel Cooper's standard and it's served me very well. The only special option I had added to my gun was an ambedexterious safety as I am left-handed.

I'm confident you would be pleased with a 1911 from either company.

Hope this is helpful.

Regards, Todd

[SBprone]

I'm not a 1911 guy but the ones I've talked to all say that Kimber is about the last word in a factory autopistol. The ultimate 1911 used to be a box stock Colt plus about $2500 of custom gunsmithing. I think where Kimber shines is in making a factory package that incorporates the useful product improvements developed over the years by the custom smiths, at a mass-production price.

[ought-six]

Kimber's .45 ACP is very good. I'm a sentamentalist though, and prefer the original M-1911.