David Frost Interview with President Bush Pt II

SIR DAVID FROST: People have said, Mr. President, you know, that the same meticulous planning that went into winning the war didn't go into winning the peace, and we were a bit unprepared for some of the surprises - the unpleasant surprises -

SIR DAVID FROST: -- you know, the terrorists and all of that that came along. Is that a fair comment?

PRESIDENT BUSH: Ah - No. (Chuckles.) It's not a fair comment. We look at all contingencies and are dealing with the contingencies. Look, let me - if I could step back and maybe think out loud here about some of the stories or some of the speculation that was going on before we went into Iraq: one, that, you know, the oil revenues would be blown up, the oil fields would be destroyed; they weren't. As a matter of fact, oil production is up to 2.1 or 2.2 million barrels a day, to the benefit of the Iraqi people. That's a very important point. Remember there was speculation about sectarian violence, that the long-suppressed Kurds or Shi'a make take out their anxieties and their frustrations on the Sunnis. That didn't happen. There was talk about mass starvation. It didn't happen. Refugee flows that would be unmanageable - that never happened, and so a lot of the contingencies that we had planned for didn't happen.

What has happened is that, in a relatively small part of the country, there are Ba'athists -

PRESIDENT BUSH: Yes, Sunni Triangle - they are attacking, and they're attacking not only coalition forces, they're attacking innocent Iraqis because what they're trying to do is stop the spread of progress.

PRESIDENT BUSH: Well, I would call it a desperate attempt, by people who were in - totally in control of government through tyrannical means, to regain power. This is nothing more than a power grab. Now there are some foreign fighters - mujaheddin types or al Qaeda, or al Qaeda affiliates involved, as well. They've got a different mission; they want to install a Taliban-type government in Iraq, or they want to seek revenge for getting whipped in Afghanistan. But nevertheless, they all have now found common ground for a brief period of time, and what we will do is we will use Iraqi intelligence, we will use Iraqi security forces -- we're up to about 118,000 Iraqi folks in one type of uniform or another securing the country - to be an integral part of chasing these killers down and to bring them to justice before they kill innocent life.

In Iraq For the Long Haul? SIR DAVID FROST: But it must have taken us a bit by surprise or otherwise we'd have prepared for it - the level of this, the combination of the, what, 700 - perhaps - foreign terrorists who came into Iraq, and so on. That was -

PRESIDENT BUSH: You know, I don't think so. I think - listen, a lot of those people who came in initially wish they hadn't come in initially. They're not wishing at all right now, but no, I - we understood it was going to be tough. We've been there for seven months, David, which seems like a long time, particularly given the news cycles the way they are. I'm certainly not complaining about the news cycles, but it - nevertheless, there's a certain sense of impatience that has now crept into the world, and my job is to enable our operators and military to make adjustments necessary to succeed. And we've got the same strategy, which is a peaceful Iraq; the tactics shift depending upon the decisions of the enemy, and we're making progress. That's not to say it's not tough. Of course it's tough. But what they want to do is they want to shake the will of the free world, and the good news about having a partner like Tony Blair is he won't be shaken, you see, and neither will I. And neither will Jose Maria Aznar.

I heard Berlusconi stand up with a strong statement after the Italian police had been murdered, and we sent - of course sent our sympathies and prayers to the Italian people there, but Berlusconi said, "They're not going to run us out." And that's what these terrorists need to hear. And more importantly - or as importantly - the Iraqi citizens need to hear that. They need to know that we won't leave the country prematurely. They need to know two things: we're not going to cut and run; and two, we believe they have the capacity to run their own country.

SIR DAVID FROST: Well, as - the cut-and-run thing, obviously, is absolutely vital. When you said you're not going to cut and run, you'll be there as long as it takes. Tony Blair, in his speech on Monday night, said, "We're not going to retreat one inch." I mean, we are there for as - how long it takes to produce a successful Iraqi democracy, are we?

PRESIDENT BUSH: Well, we don't think it will be years and years because, first of all, we think the Iraqi people are plenty capable of running their own country, and we think they want to run their own country. See, some in the world - some in the world don't believe that Iraq can run itself; in other words, they believe that - well, might as well let them have a military dictatorship or a tyrant. That's the only way they can be governed. I disagree, and Tony Blair disagrees with that. We believe that democracy will take hold in Iraq, and we believe a free and democratic Iraq will help change the Middle East. There are hundreds of reformers that are desperate for freedom. Freedom - freedom is not America's gift to the world or Great Britain's gift to the world. Freedom is the Almighty's gift to everybody who lives in the world.

SIR DAVID FROST: Is there any likelihood that Saddam himself could be behind this violence?

PRESIDENT BUSH: I - you know, Saddam Hussein is a violent man. Listen, he - he tortured and maimed and killed, he had rape rooms, and people disappeared because they spoke out against him, we've discovered mass graves. He's a brutal, brutal tyrant - brutal tyrant.

We did the Iraqi people a great favor by removing him, and so I wouldn't be surprised that any kind of violence is promoted by him, but I don't know - I don't know. All I know is we're after him.

The Dangers of Regime-Change SIR DAVID FROST: Because that's one of the interesting things that - I mean, nobody has time for or a moment for Saddam Hussein. Some people are worried, in England and around the world, by the idea of regime change because they say once we've done regime change - Britain and America -

SIR DAVID FROST: -- with Saddam Hussein, what can we say if India wants to do regime change with - not Pakistan - or Pakistan wants to do regime change with India?

PRESIDENT BUSH: Yes, well, see, I - that's - yes, I can understand their concerns except they forgot the history. This issue has been discussed in the United Nations for over a decade, and the United Nations, as a - kind of multilateral international body, passed resolution after resolution after resolution calling for Saddam Hussein to disarm. In other words, the diplomatic process went forward. There was plenty of diplomacy. And I would - to the critics I would say that there will be diplomacy when it comes to India and Pakistan. The world will speak out clearly.

The problem is is that when the world speaks out clearly and then nothing happens - all we've got is empty words - it's tyrants take advantage of that. Tyrants - if tyrants don't fear, feel like they can torture and kill with impunity, feel like they can blackmail the world, and all the world does is put out empty words, it makes multilateralism extremely ineffective.

Obviously not every situation needs to be solved militarily. The military option is the last option as far as I'm concerned. And I would refer people to North Korea where we've got a multilateral attempt to convince Kim Jong Il to get rid of his nuclear ambitions. We understand -- just like Saddam Hussein -- that he has been torturous to his people. The - you know, people in North Korea are starving to death, and that weapons of mass destruction in his hands, given his history - just like weapons of mass destruction in Saddam's hands, given his history - is a very dangerous element. It's dangerous. It is - inhibits the capacity for peace and freedom to spread.

But what I've done is I've convinced China and South Korea, and Japan, and Russia to speak with one voice to the North Korean and say, "Get rid of your nuclear ambitions." We're also, at the same time, working on a counter-proliferation regime that will stop his ability to ship weapons of mass destruction or a nuclear warhead to a terrorist group. In other words, we're working together in multilateral, multinational fashion to bring peace and stability to the world.

Would He Rather Be Defeated By the Voters Than By the Terrorists? SIR DAVID FROST: Someone who knows how passionate you are about this war on terror and the - and Iraq and so on, said, "I know George Bush, and I think, in terms of his legacy, he'd rather - I'll tell you how strongly he feels," he said. "He'd rather be defeated by the voters than by the terrorists." Is that true?

PRESIDENT BUSH: (Chuckles.) I'd rather not be defeated by either. (Laughter.) And we will not be defeated by the terrorists. And I say that confidently because the allies in the war on terror are strong and steadfast, and there's no stronger and steadfast ally in the war on terror than Tony Blair. He understands the stakes. He knows that freedom is being challenged. He understands, as well, that the spread of freedom and democracy in the long run will defeat terror. And that's why the battle, the stakes are so high in Iraq right now.

By the way, Iraq is a front in the war on terror. And it's important for people to understand that, because the war takes place elsewhere.

SIR DAVID FROST: And the - and in - one of the reasons that people say in the Arab world -- that you won't really be able to redress the balance against America until - until the United States is seen not to tilt towards Israel - (President Bush chuckles) - in the Middle East.

PRESIDENT BUSH: I think about that - you know, I think it's an excuse - I'm the first president ever to go to the United Nations -

PRESIDENT BUSH: -- two states side by side in peace. No president has ever said that. And I said it, and I said it with conviction, because I believe it is in Israel's interest that there be a peaceful Palestinian state. And I know it's in the Palestinians' interest. However, to achieve a peaceful Palestinian state, the emergence of a peaceful Palestinian state, a state where people are willing to risk capital, a place where people are willing to develop an economy, there must be a focused effort to defeat terror. And there hasn't been with the current Palestinian leadership.

I went and embraced in Aqaba, Jordan Abu Mazen. And the reason I did so, David, is because he came to the Oval Office and he said "I will join you in the fight against terror. We're not going to allow the few to destroy the hopes of the many." As well, I could sense in his talk, in his feeling, that he's got great trust in the Palestinian people. In other words, given a chance, the Palestinian people will develop the habits of democracy, and out of that will come a great state, a peaceful state. And I trusted him. And we were working with him. We were making good progress.

I was working with Ariel Sharon. I gave a speech on June 24, 2002, which says all of us have responsibilities, and you, Israel, have a responsibility.

PRESIDENT BUSH: I believe he wants peace for his people -- truly do. I mean, you know, look. I mean, he's a man who has presided over suiciders, where he has to go to the funerals of women and children because some cold-blooded killer is trying to destroy the hopes of all the people in the region. And, yes, I believe so. And I believe he believes in the Palestinian state. I've asked him in the Oval Office. I said, "Listen, am I out there by myself on the Palestinian state, or will you support it?" And he said he will. But both of us understand, as do a lot of other people, that for a state to emerge, there must be a focused effort to get after the Hamas killers, for example, who want to destroy the hopes of the people that believe in a Palestinian state.

Lessons From the Oval Office SIR DAVID FROST: As we approach the end of this interview, what would you say is the most important lesson you've learned in life in the presidency?

PRESIDENT BUSH: The most important lesson in life in the presidency? Have a clear vision of where you want to lead, and lead. And I've got a clear vision. It's a world that is more free and therefore more peaceful; a world based upon human rights, human dignity and justice; a vision that does not discriminate between one group of people or another, because I believe all people have the desire to be free. And I'm willing to lead there. And, you know, the people of this country will make the decision. You asked about politics. They'll make the decision as to whether or not they - I've been honest with them and open with them and whether or not they like my leadership style. A lot of it will have to do on the economy, of course, whether or not I get another four years.

SIR DAVID FROST: Would you hope to present to the country the same team -- Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld, and Colin Powell, and Condi Rice for the second term?

PRESIDENT BUSH: It's been a fabulous team -- and Cheney for certain. And I haven't - obviously, I'm not going to talk to my cabinet ministers until after the election. And - but I'm proud of this team. I've put together one of the finest teams, one of the finest administrations any president has ever assembled. These are good, honest, decent, hard-working, experienced people who give me good, unvarnished advice. And when I make a decision, say "Yes, sir, Mr. President, we'll go execute it."

The most important lesson in life in the presidency? Have a clear vision of where you want to lead, and lead. And I've got a clear vision. It's a world that is more free and therefore more peaceful; a world based upon human rights, human dignity and justice; a vision that does not discriminate between one group of people or another, because I believe all people have the desire to be free. And I'm willing to lead there.

God bless you, Mr. President.

How it is the Demonrats and terrorists are out to destroy such a man. That's a great interview and it would be nice if the people of England actually took the time to listen and learn from their fine Prime Minister and our fine President.

That's not to say it's not tough. Of course it's tough. But what they want to do is they want to shake the will of the free world, and the good news about having a partner like Tony Blair is he won't be shaken, you see, and neither will I. And neither will Jose Maria Aznar.

it would be nice if the people of England actually took the time to listen and learn

I believe this interview was done by BBC and is aimed at the british people during GWs visit there.

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