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Bush administration prepares strategy to revamp Social Security
Associated Press ^ | 11-17-03

Posted on 11/17/2003 3:01:17 PM PST by Brian S

Edited on 04/13/2004 2:44:55 AM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]

With the stock market climbing and a re-election campaign approaching, the Bush administration is renewing its push to overhaul Social Security with personal investment accounts.

The Social Security Administration, with AARP and the National Association of Manufacturers, is organizing town hall meetings across the country to help build public support for changes.


(Excerpt) Read more at sfgate.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Front Page News; Government
KEYWORDS: bush43; bushdoctrine; reform; socialsecurity
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1 posted on 11/17/2003 3:01:18 PM PST by Brian S
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To: Brian S
Well, this will be excellent if he follows through... who knows when next we will get a President with the testicles to tackle this issue; we may already be bankrupted by SS by then.
2 posted on 11/17/2003 3:07:22 PM PST by thoughtomator ("A republic, if you can keep it.")
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To: Brian S
Good grief, now Dubya's gonna scam the senior citizens just to pump up the Dow Jones average.

If the current SS System = Enron, then Dubya's "privatization" plan = Arthur Anderson.

Both major political parties perpetuate The Big Lie regarding Social Security. The Big Lie has existed since Social Security's inception. The debate over "privatization" is only the latest version of The Big Lie.

The Big Lie is that Social Security is some kind of retirement savings plan.

It is NOT.

Social Security is a socialist income redistribution scheme, nothing else.

Those who are working are taxed to provide a "safety net" for those who are less fortunate.
Originally, this meant retirees and surviving dependents.
Congress has, of course, complicated it far beyond this over the last 65 years.

But one fact remains: it is NOT a "savings plan", it is an income redistribution scheme.

A major facet of The Big Lie is that "we have to do something so that Social Security remains solvent in the future.

Poppycock!

In today's age of modern computerization, the computation for operating an income redistribution scheme that remains perpetually solvent is quite simple:

This month's total SS tax receipts = Next month's total SS tax disbursements

The only change necessary to the current system is that monthly payments to eligible recipients would be a variable amount, not fixed.

THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO NEED FOR A MULTI-TRILLION DOLLAR "TRUST" FUND!!!

Congress should NEVER have been permitted to confiscate so much money from the American People in the name of The Big Lie. This fund is nothing but a slush fund that Congress raids to pay for other government expenditures. If private sector employers did the same thing with their companies' pension funds, they'd be placed in prison. The "privatization" plan proposed by Bush is merely an attempt by Wall Street brokerage firms and financial institutions to get in on the scam: grab a portion of a constant revenue stream (guaranteed by taxation) from which they can skim their commissions.

Daschle's "concern" over the Social Security system is a lie.

Bush's plan to Enronize the system is worse.

The American People need to wake up and put these liars and thieves in prison.

3 posted on 11/17/2003 3:13:16 PM PST by Willie Green (Go Pat Go!!!)
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To: thoughtomator
But Social Security reform is painful politically for some congressional Republicans who want to avoid talking about changes to a program that is precious to a segment of the electorate that votes in large numbers -- the elderly -- regardless of whether they would be affected.

This is ridiculous. Retirees keep their existing benefits; it should make no difference to them whatsoever. Yes, Democrats are lying through their teeth trying to convince them that Republicans want to starve them. But if the GOP can't win on this issue with the facts so clearly on their side, they don't deserve to exist as a party.

4 posted on 11/17/2003 3:14:54 PM PST by ThinkDifferent
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To: Willie Green
Willie, here are your choices.

1) Leave SS as it is, requiring an increase in taxes and age of eligibility

2) Privatize it so people have 401(k)/IRA type plans that they own

3) Totally eliminate SS all together. Halt payments and halt the collection of the SS portion of FICA

4) Eliminate SS for all those not currently on it and those under a certain age, and pay those currently on it and above a certain age upon their reaching eligibility age


So, which option do you favor and why?

Personally, I would like to see it privatized, providing every American with a 401(k)/IRA type account that they own and control.

5 posted on 11/17/2003 3:23:55 PM PST by Phantom Lord (Distributor of Pain, Your Loss Becomes My Gain)
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To: Brian S
Democrats eagerly exploited Bush's plans in last year's congressional elections, which coincided with the slumping stock market and the Enron scandal that depleted workers' retirement savings.

And got their butts handed to them. Or does the Associated Press not follow national election results?

Why can't we just opt out? Sign and notarize a legal document stating that I, personally, am never eligible for one penny of SSI money. In exchange, I don't have to put any money in. I'll forego whatever I've already lost to the system in exchange for that deal, because I'll never see a penny of that money anyway.
6 posted on 11/17/2003 3:26:46 PM PST by FreedomFlynnie (Your tagline here, for just pennies a day!)
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To: Phantom Lord
As a gen-xer I would prefer a 401k - indvidual savings account over the current one retirement system.
7 posted on 11/17/2003 3:30:43 PM PST by KevinDavis (Let the meek inherit the Earth, the rest of us will explore the stars!)
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To: Phantom Lord
So, which option do you favor and why?

I already explained my preference and reject your exclusion of such alternatives.

8 posted on 11/17/2003 3:32:08 PM PST by Willie Green (Go Pat Go!!!)
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To: FreedomFlynnie
All I know is that given the odds of my good fortune, the solution to Social Security will assure that I am not eligible to collect dime #1 of the $100,000 I've put in before I'm eligible to collect anything. Not that I'm selfish or nuttin, but takin $100,000 from me over the past 30 years, promising me I'll get some of it back for being such a good little machine and then shafting me for nuttin, will cause me to become more than a bit hostile. At least shooting me dead would imply more respect than pretending they can just change me to a -0- because I, the good little machine helped become the solution. No hard feelings and all.......

I expect what I put in and under the terms in effect during the time they took it from me.

9 posted on 11/17/2003 3:37:39 PM PST by blackdog (Five clicks gets you 2600' of bright soft grass in the murkiness of night.)
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To: FreedomFlynnie
I'd agree with that if I could get both the business and personal SSI taxes into a Roth IRA.
10 posted on 11/17/2003 3:40:08 PM PST by playball0 (Fortune favors the bold)
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To: Willie Green
I already explained my preference and reject your exclusion of such alternatives.

Your "alternative" is either a cut in benefits or a tax increase. The ratio of workers to retirees is constantly decreasing, so either taxes must increase or benefits must fall.

11 posted on 11/17/2003 3:45:57 PM PST by ThinkDifferent
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To: Willie Green
I already explained my preference and reject your exclusion of such alternatives.

On this thread? Please point me to them. If not on this thread, please tell me what your alternatives are. Thanks!

12 posted on 11/17/2003 4:03:41 PM PST by Phantom Lord (Distributor of Pain, Your Loss Becomes My Gain)
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To: ThinkDifferent
The ratio of workers to retirees is constantly decreasing, so either taxes must increase or benefits must fall.

While that may be the current trend of the ratio, I don't accept that it is a "constant" trend,
Furthermore, benefit payouts are intentionally made variable. They will both increase and decrease in relation to the business cycle.
That is in keeping with longstanding government policy that it is merely a "safety net", not intended to be the sole source of retirement income.

13 posted on 11/17/2003 4:05:50 PM PST by Willie Green (Go Pat Go!!!)
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To: Phantom Lord
On this thread? Please point me to them

It's staring right at you in reply #3.
It's based on the solid premise that all proposals eminating from Washington D.C. originate with corrupt liars and thieves, no matter their party affiliation.

Prove me wrong.

14 posted on 11/17/2003 4:09:13 PM PST by Willie Green (Go Pat Go!!!)
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To: blackdog
Fair enough. I'm still in college and only have a couple thousand $ in there from part-time and summer work. And there's no doubt in my mind that I won't ever receive a dime of that money or any I ever am forced to put in in the future.

I like your tagline. Where's there a grass strip with PCL?
15 posted on 11/17/2003 4:27:59 PM PST by FreedomFlynnie (Your tagline here, for just pennies a day!)
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To: playball0
I'd agree with that if I could get both the business and personal SSI taxes into a Roth IRA.

Under my plan you could get them into a Roth IRA, a regular IRA, or spend 'em all on beer and cigarettes, as long as you agree never to be eligible to collect from the system.

I don't think there's any such thing as "business" SSI taxes anyway. You just get paid 7.65% less than you otherwise would.
16 posted on 11/17/2003 4:31:22 PM PST by FreedomFlynnie (Your tagline here, for just pennies a day!)
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To: FreedomFlynnie; Brian S; Willie Green
Why can't we just opt out? Sign and notarize a legal document stating that I, personally, am never eligible for one penny of SSI money. In exchange, I don't have to put any money in.

There's always the possibility that you (and those who opt for privitization) will be in dire straits (for whatever reason: you neglect to save or invest; the stock market crashes; your children somehow screw up your retirement plan, etc.) in your older years and there ain't no way Americans are going to just say, "Well, FF made his own bed, let him lie in it. He opted out way back when. Too bad he's now a frail old man starving to death out in the cold...." You get the picture. The possibility exists that, even if you opt out of current SS, American workers will still have to provide for you later on.

That said, I'm really interested in what this admin will offer as an alternative and generally agree with some sort of privitization -- stop stealing from my paycheck and let me manage it.

I'm hoping there will be some sort of grandfather clause because like another poster whose name I forget I made a deal with the gov't and have been paying into this bottomless hole and I expect to get my $$ back, dadgummit!

<><

17 posted on 11/17/2003 4:32:45 PM PST by viaveritasvita ("When Love takes you in, everything changes.")
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To: blackdog
I expect what I put in and under the terms in effect during the time they took it from me.

Ditto. And not one red cent less!

<><

18 posted on 11/17/2003 4:33:55 PM PST by viaveritasvita ("When Love takes you in, everything changes.")
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To: FreedomFlynnie
Why can't we just opt out? Sign and notarize a legal document stating that I, personally, am never eligible for one penny of SSI money. In exchange, I don't have to put any money in.

The thieves won't permit it. Unless they can dip into your cash flow, they can't skim off a percentage for themselves and their cronies.

19 posted on 11/17/2003 4:39:30 PM PST by Willie Green (Go Pat Go!!!)
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To: FreedomFlynnie
PCL is in my back eighty. You can't get a pilot's ticket anymore that teaches you to take off or land from anything but a 5000' paved runway. I've proven I can land a cherokee over a 50' obstacle at the threshold to a complete stop in 640'. As for the takeoff numbers, those are a bit more by the book. Nothing can slip and sink like a cherokee!

As for social security it's simple.......40 million people who are not born to pay into the system are the problem. Instead, we are going to open the borders to Mexico and allow about 75 million in, in order to keep SSI solvent. It's really very simple. The only cuts they need to make are all the disability and other groups which got tagged on to buy more votes in the 50's and 60's. Half those collecting are not collecting retirement benefits they are collecting disability. Drug addicts, mental cases, alchoholics, and such........

20 posted on 11/17/2003 4:47:36 PM PST by blackdog (Five clicks gets you 2600' of bright soft grass in the murkiness of night.)
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