M-16 Rifle May Be on Way Out of U.S. Army

AP, Yahoo! ^ | 11-22-03 | Slobodan Lekic

[elmer fudd]

The Germans spent decades trying to perfect caseless cartridges and even had a working prototype rifle. They finally gave up on it in the early 90's. There are a lot of advantages to caseless ammunition, but there are some major problems too. The Ammo was fragile and the guns tended to overheat. It seems that an overlooked benefit of cased ammo is that it serves to help cool the rifle. The hot brass that is ejected contains heat energy that would otherwise overheat the rifle. The Germans had to use ceramics and some tricky chemistry to avoid cookoffs and meltdowns.

[Eaker]

i've fired several hundred rounds from an AR-15 and a few thousand rounds from my own SKS' and an Mk-90 and prefer the SKS hands down.(7.62>5.56)

I feel exactly the opposite after having done the same in reverse.

I don't think that the SKS has near the accuracy of a M16 /AR15. Also, the only jams that I have seen were with Wolf ammo.

[Dinsdale]

Caseless rounds are a good 'idea'.

If they are a good practical exercise is another question.

[AngryJawa]

Silly question:

Why is it that we don't add / mix in a few dedicated M14 (or equal)and 12 ga. shotgun carriers amongst the M4's and SAW's within a platoon?

Seems to me that it would help expand long range and close-in capabilities.

[Walkin Man]

http://world.guns.ru/assault/as14-e.htm

This one?

[RadioAstronomer]

Thanks. :-) I knew there were a lot of folks here smarter than I am on this issue. :-)

[Hugin]

You beat me to it.

The obvious solution is a bullpup design, which allows for the longest barrel in the shortest overall weapon.

[RadioAstronomer]

If they are a good practical exercise is another question.

It looks like so far they are not.

[Dinsdale]

Caseless rounds worked well enough untill the invention of case.

[duk]

That's thinking outside of the box!!

[Billthedrill]

I lust after one of the Springfield M1As. Probably my next major firearms purchase. Something in a National Match, perhaps, Swarovski glass...(sound of BtD hyperventilating)...

[The KG9 Kid]

[Walkin Man]

You mean like this?

[jonascord]

The Japanese Model 97 Arisaka was 6.5 mm. The .30-06 trumped it every time. A .30-06 with standard AP could penetrate a palm tree and kill the man behind it. The 6.5mm used by both the Italians and the IJA was underpowered, and lacked the cross-sectional area to rip parts off, which is the function of a rifle. Hit a man with one round of .30-06, he is going down. Hit him with several, like from a M1919 Browning, or a BAR, and he will be separated into several steaming parts.

The M-1 carbine was too hot for a pistol round, and too wussy for a rifle. Little girls and the Army liked it though... Recoil being such a major factor for beanie wearing metrosexuals...

[BushMeister]

The idea of mixing in some longer-range capability (see: Afghanistan's wide-open mountain battles) and quick-reaction short-range capability within a platoon is a good idea, but has problems in implementation.

Those of us who read about 10th Mountain troops in Afghanistan being shelled by mortars from 1000 yards, but unable to answer back with their M-16s and M-4s probably thought it would be nice to have one Barrett M82A1 .50 BMG rifle among each platoon (depending on the mission/terrain), to handle such situations.

For immeditate reaction at short range, a shotgun might not be the right solution, because the attackers are often in cars. A short-barrel weapon firing at least .308 would be nice.

[Centurion2000]

Chamber the M4 into a .308 round ... perfect short range battle rifle.....

[BushMeister]

Yes, that's the one. And they'll soon be manufactured here in the U.S., I believe.

[Dr Warmoose]

and a handy little 10mm Thompson

I always thought the MP-5 in a 10mm would do the trick.

5.56mm. Isn't that just your basic squirrel hunting sized .22 ? (Ok, with a little more muzzle velocity)

We may never see the good 'ol days of the 30-06 and .308 because all of the wimmin folk and the slack jawed, shallow chested boys coming into the army couldn't handle the kick like real fighting men.

[Pilsner]

The M-16 combines the size of a full size battle rifle with the knock down power power of a submachine gun and a range that splits the difference. That means its combines the worst features of battle rifles and submachine guns.

If the Army is going to make infantry drag around a full size rifle it might as well give them a cartridge of at least .308.

If the Army is going to send everybody who rides around in vehicles into battle with weapon with modest range and knock down power, they might as well make it short and handy and shoot .45 or 9mm. I saw a photo from this year of a Special Forces vehicle manned by soldiers armed with Sterlings. These are basically upgraded Stens, in 9mm, issued by the Brits in the 1950s to eveybody who didn't get a full size rifle.

What ever new weapons that are adopted need to be at least as rugged the AK-47.

[RadioAstronomer]

LOL yup they did. Was that not called a blunderbuss or if you consider any thrown object, even a rock? :-)