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To: Ophiucus
"We have staked the whole future of American civilization, not upon the power of government, far from it. We haved staked the future of all our political institutions upon the capacity of mankind for self-government; upon the capacity of each of us to govern ourselves, to control ourselves, to sustain ourselves according to the ten commandments." James Madison
Madison never said that. It was apparently invented for an inspirational calendar in the late 1950s and attributed to Madison. David Barton picked it up and spread it all over the place as part of his "America's Godly Heritage" presentation. Madison scholars found it to be completely inconsistent with his other writings and asked for a source.

As a result, Barton had to admit that several of the quotations that he had used could not be confirmed.

-Eric

12 posted on 11/24/2003 5:08:39 AM PST by E Rocc
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To: E Rocc
Madison never said that. It was apparently invented for an inspirational calendar in the late 1950s and attributed to Madison.

I read over the link you provided - interesting. Problem is, nothing was mentioned about it being "invented." It did say it was unconfirmed in a primary source but in character of Madison. I noticed that the 'unconfirmed' quote from Sam Adams had been updated to 'confirmed' so maybe in time, this quote can be found or disproven.

Originally, I saw the quote in a secondary source, lost it, then saw it again in an O'Reilly column attributing it to a letter between Madison and Jefferson. Maybe we should ask O'Reilly which one.

18 posted on 11/24/2003 8:44:52 AM PST by Ophiucus
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To: E Rocc
Further reading of your source site has revealed:

It was apparently invented for an inspirational calendar in the late 1950s and attributed to Madison

This is untrue. Barton when challenged by critic Barry Hankins was able to show that the quote not only was older than himself but had been in "circulation for generations" and was attributable to an older, non-modern historical text.

As a result, Barton had to admit that several of the quotations that he had used could not be confirmed.

Not true. Barton wrote a second book, as he put it "to raise the bar" and use legal "best evidence." Best evidence goes to primary sources. His previous work with over 750 footnotes had been based on historical texts of the late 1700's through the late 1800's. The second book, 1400 footnotes, used only primary sources and only 14 of the previous quotes, used in much earlier historical works, could not be confirmed in a primary source.

This all happened before the 'Madison scholars' criticized the Madison quote.

20 posted on 11/24/2003 9:02:18 AM PST by Ophiucus
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To: E Rocc
But the "Showtime-CBS-Streisand Reagan Movie" does show that making up quotes is accepted in certain circles.
113 posted on 12/02/2003 8:26:08 AM PST by Doctor Stochastic (Vegetabilisch = chaotisch is der Charakter der Modernen. - Friedrich Schlegel)
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