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U.S. soldier accused of beating Iraqi prisoners says, `It is war'
SFgate ^ | (11-25) 10:26 PST PHILADELPHIA (AP) -- | DAVID B. CARUSO

Posted on 11/26/2003 9:53:19 AM PST by ConservativeMan55

Edited on 04/13/2004 2:45:00 AM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]

U.S. soldier accused of beating Iraqi prisoners says, `It is war'

One of four American MPs charged with beating prisoners of war at a detention camp in Iraq said Tuesday: "We were doing our jobs. ... It is war. It is not back home where everybody is safe."


(Excerpt) Read more at sfgate.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Foreign Affairs; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: beating; iraq; mp; police; pow; staff; war
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To: ConservativeMan55
This is war.

Yes, it is. And it's war against the sort of people who go around attacking people for no good reason. You'd have us act like them, apparently.

Perhaps even you would act different when attacked by an Iraqi

We're told in this story that she was not attacked. Instead, she and three others beat the prisoners without provocation.

who would do far worse if he had captured her.

Whether or not the Iraqi would have acted differently toward her is irrelevant.

81 posted on 11/26/2003 11:20:04 AM PST by r9etb
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To: Cathryn Crawford; ElkGroveDan
Ping for your interest!
82 posted on 11/26/2003 11:20:38 AM PST by ConservativeMan55 (The left always "feels your pain" unless of course they caused it.)
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To: r9etb
So you are saying you don't believe the American Solider?

BUT...you do believe the filthy Iraqi terrorist?

Is that what you are saying?
83 posted on 11/26/2003 11:21:36 AM PST by ConservativeMan55 (The left always "feels your pain" unless of course they caused it.)
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To: r9etb
If I was attacked by an Iraqi I would do FAR worse than what she did.
84 posted on 11/26/2003 11:22:08 AM PST by ConservativeMan55 (The left always "feels your pain" unless of course they caused it.)
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To: ConservativeMan55
It is the "Iraqi" side when you take a filthy Iraqi terrorists word over an American soldiers word.

Well, let's just look at what the article says:

Fellow soldiers testified that the four Pennsylvania reservists punched and kicked prisoners who were being brought to an American camp in southern Iraq on May 12.

Now -- if you want to call her fellow soldiers "filthy Iraqi terrorists," you're free to do so. It would be more reasonable, however, if you simply read the article before posting stupid opinions.

85 posted on 11/26/2003 11:23:14 AM PST by r9etb
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To: r9etb
We're told in this story that she was not attacked. Instead, she and three others beat the prisoners without provocation.

Bull$hit, bull$hit, bull$hit, you are making this up as you go. The story said: The reservists have said they were acting in self-defense.

You chose to fabricate to take sides against US soldiers. What a POS you are.

86 posted on 11/26/2003 11:24:15 AM PST by Eagle Eye (I'm a RINO. I'm far too conservative to be a real Republican.)
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To: Eagle Eye
What do you do in (allegedly) Iraq?
87 posted on 11/26/2003 11:24:27 AM PST by r9etb
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To: r9etb
Fellow soldiers testified that the four Pennsylvania reservists punched and kicked prisoners who were being brought to an American camp in southern Iraq on May 12.

You wanna play the pick apart game? I can play it too? Where does it say that they testified about an unprovoked attack? Where in the world does it say that the filthy Iraqi terrorist wasn't attacking the other soldiers?????????????

88 posted on 11/26/2003 11:25:43 AM PST by ConservativeMan55 (The left always "feels your pain" unless of course they caused it.)
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To: Eagle Eye
You didn't even read the article, did you?

You might try reading it -- especially the parts where Americans are describing the actions of the four guards.

When you do so, you'll discover that I'm not making things up as I go.

What a POS you are.

Oh, brother.

89 posted on 11/26/2003 11:27:49 AM PST by r9etb
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To: r9etb
Where in the article does the testimony describe the actions of the prisoner?

Unless you can produce that your "Iraqi Side" has no credibility.
90 posted on 11/26/2003 11:29:03 AM PST by ConservativeMan55 (The left always "feels your pain" unless of course they caused it.)
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To: DannyTN
Ping...perhaps you could add some insight into this.
91 posted on 11/26/2003 11:31:12 AM PST by ConservativeMan55 (The left always "feels your pain" unless of course they caused it.)
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To: ConservativeMan55
A Bad Conduct Discharge is treated the same as a felony I would presume.
92 posted on 11/26/2003 11:31:19 AM PST by eastforker (Money is the key to justice,just ask any lawyer.)
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To: ConservativeMan55
This is one of the most ignorant conversations I've ever stumbled upon on FR. Granted, we do not have all of the facts here, but think about it.

100 MPs guarding 8000 prisoners, assuming three rotating shifts of 8 hours each, would mean that about 30 MPs are on shift at any given time, with another 30 for QRF (quick reaction force) and 30 who are asleep. They probably haven't had a day off in months.

Their prisoners are well fed, well rested, and can communicate in Arabic. They could discuss slitting your throat right in front of you, and you'd have no idea. Also, if they don't speak any English you don't know if they are resisting because they don't understand, or because they don't intend to cooperate.

This means that at any given time the active MPs are outnumbered and surrouded by thousands of potentially hostile and physically capable prisoners. I'm not an MP, but I can almost guarentee that they didn't have anywhere near the manpower or resources needed to adequately care for this many prisoners.

Also, the Army's rules on what is considered EPW abuse are extremely strict and often unreasonable given the circumstances. How do you convince someone that wasn't there and didn't know the situation that the actions that you took were necessary as part of self defense?

So there they are, in a war torn foriegn land, physically handling thousands of prisoners a day, arranging for food, showers, medical treatment, interrogations, and documenting. All day, every day, you're dealing with hordes of angry, resisting prisoners who physically resist you, spit on you, and who 'don't respect women' to put it nicely. (Note that two of the dendendents are women)

Now, it's easy for us to sit back and say 'Beating prisoners isn't the America way' or 'If they can't hack the stress, they shouldn't be MPs'. I'm telling you that these troops were set up for failure by being forced to work under such unsafe conditions with inadequate resources. It was just a matter of time before someone lost their cool and overreacted due to stress. There is no indication that these abuses reported were during interrogations or for pleasure.

If this is the worst abuses that the enemy has faced in our care, then we're saints compared to anyone else who's ever run an EPW camp. Most of the blame for this should be placed on the leaders that put the troops in this position in the first place.

93 posted on 11/26/2003 11:32:04 AM PST by Steel Wolf (Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life, son)
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To: eastforker
I see. I presume that means IF she is convicted she won't be able to carry a firearm as well?

Somebody get this story out to the National Media!
94 posted on 11/26/2003 11:32:28 AM PST by ConservativeMan55 (The left always "feels your pain" unless of course they caused it.)
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To: Steel Wolf
Amen.
95 posted on 11/26/2003 11:34:02 AM PST by ConservativeMan55 (The left always "feels your pain" unless of course they caused it.)
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To: ConservativeMan55
You wanna play the pick apart game? I can play it too? Where does it say that they testified about an unprovoked attack?

Do you think she would have been demoted and discharged if they'd testified she was responding to an attack?

Hell, man -- even she doesn't deny it. The best she can do is say, "mistakes will be made," and appeal to our sympathy by pointing out the dangers (which are the same as those faced by the guards who don't beat their prisoners, BTW).

C'mon, now, C-man. It's not "pro-Iraqi" to agree that Americans should not beat prisoners, in the same way that it's not "pro-criminal" to argue that American cops shouldn't beat prisoners.

If the prisoners attacked them first, then they deserve whatever beating they got. But if the guards beat their prisoners for no good reason, then the cops deserve punishment.

96 posted on 11/26/2003 11:36:15 AM PST by r9etb
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To: ConservativeMan55
"Ping...perhaps you could add some insight into this."

LOL Thanks for the Ping, but I don't know what to make of this.


97 posted on 11/26/2003 11:37:41 AM PST by DannyTN
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To: Steel Wolf
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/03245/217277.stm

And add to that the solders look as if they have excellent records.

Paul Feenstra, spokesman for Republican U.S. Rep. John Peterson of Venango County, said the congressman had not asked for an inquiry. However, he said the MPs have "impeccable records" while those they're accused of abusing were Baath Party officials and Syrian terrorists.

98 posted on 11/26/2003 11:38:08 AM PST by Lijahsbubbe (Take my advice; I don't use it anyway.)
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To: r9etb
Doesn't matter. There's no need to know.
99 posted on 11/26/2003 11:38:40 AM PST by Eagle Eye (I'm a RINO. I'm far too conservative to be a real Republican.)
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To: r9etb
"If the prisoners attacked them first, then they deserve whatever beating they got. But if the guards beat their prisoners for no good reason, then the cops deserve punishment."

And she says that the prisoner attacked her. Thats all you need right there. But you LIBERAL IRAQI LOVING BLIND FRUITCAKE are too blind to believe her.
100 posted on 11/26/2003 11:39:17 AM PST by ConservativeMan55 (The left always "feels your pain" unless of course they caused it.)
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