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To: Dead Corpse
What does Article II, Section 4 have to do with this?

The Second Amendment doesn't apply to the states. As a matter of fact, prior to the 14th amendment, none of the BOR applied to the states. The U.S. Constitution was written to define federal powers.

With the passage of the 14th, most, but not all, of the BOR have been "incorporated" through the courts, and now apply to the states.

The Second Amendment has never been incorporated. Ever wonder how a city like New York or Chicago can ban the ownership of guns?

43 posted on 12/02/2003 2:10:45 PM PST by robertpaulsen
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To: robertpaulsen
Incorperation myth again huh? Try reading the Constitution sometime.

The Second got all the incorperation it needed when it was ratified.

48 posted on 12/02/2003 2:21:09 PM PST by Dead Corpse (For an Evil Super Genius, you aren't too bright are you?)
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To: robertpaulsen; everyone
JohnGalt wrote:
Okay, so what is your explanation for why the refused to hear the case?
That is what I was asking.




They refused because they think they can get away with it.
And every indication is, -- they will, once again.
We see the proof right here at FR, from some of the reactions on this thread..


See where robertpaulsen wrote:

"The Second Amendment doesn't apply to the states. The Second Amendment has never been incorporated Ever wonder how a city like New York or Chicago can ban the ownership of guns?"

-- It's "no big deal".. ~??~
I beg to differ.

It's time to make being a traitor to our constitution into a "big deal", in my book.
50 posted on 12/02/2003 2:27:08 PM PST by tpaine (I'm trying to be 'Mr Nice Guy', but FRs flying monkey squad brings out the Rickenbacker in me.)
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To: robertpaulsen
The Second Amendment doesn't apply to the states. As a matter of fact, prior to the 14th amendment, none of the BOR applied to the states

Natural Rights apply to everyone. The B.O.R. "grants" no rights, merely affirms their existence. Whether it does so soley within the context of the Federal Government is of no relevance, as the Natural Rights of Man inhere to every American by birthright, and may not be infringed by any government at any level. This is basic Classical Liberal political theory, upon which this country is based.

61 posted on 12/02/2003 2:59:41 PM PST by RogueIsland
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To: robertpaulsen
The Second Amendment has never been incorporated.

First of all, the second amendment does not need to be incorporated. It stands on its own two feet. It is an individual right both enumerated and guaranteed to all Americans in good standing. And second of all the 14th Amendment worshippers would be wise to find another deity.

Ever wonder how a city like New York or Chicago can ban the ownership of guns?

They can't, it's unconstitutional.

63 posted on 12/02/2003 3:03:32 PM PST by jwalsh07
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To: robertpaulsen
Cities like NY, Chicago, etc. rule through the use of codes, regulations, rules and permits which are all patently unconstitutional and are created under "color of law", not "positive law". Since most cities are now incorporated, ostensibly their codes and regs have no more legal authority over "we the people" than do any rules or codes created by IBM.
87 posted on 12/02/2003 4:23:38 PM PST by american spirit (ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION = NATIONAL SUICIDE)
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To: robertpaulsen
With the passage of the 14th, most, but not all, of the BOR have been "incorporated" through the courts, and now apply to the states.

Bovine Scat. The whole purpose of the 14th amendment was to "incorporate" the first 8 amendments of the Bill of Rights against the states, along with certain other protections of individual rights containe within the main body of the constitution, the "Privelge of the Writ of Habeas Corpus" and the prohibition on Bills of Attainder and ex post facto laws. The first case the Supreme Court heard on the matter, the Slaughter House Case, they ruled that "priveleges and immunities" in the 14th amendment, meant only those that are unique attributes of National Citizenship, despite the use of the word "privelege" in the Constitution when referring to the "great writ". They furthermore relied on pre-14th amendment precedent in forming that argument (Barron vs. Baltimore for example).

Such was not the intent of the authors of the 14th, nor the understanding of both supporters and opponents in Congress, as recorded during the Congressional proceedings on the matter. The records of the Congress at that time are much more complete than those from the time the BoR was written and passed and this is not a disputable matter, although some courts have ruled that it doesn't matter what the authors intended, nor what those who voted to approve the Amendment understood, it matters what the court says the words meant. (And read the Slaughter House decision, if you want to seem some Clintonian like torturing of words. (Warning PDF file)

118 posted on 12/02/2003 8:56:26 PM PST by El Gato (Federal Judges can twist the Constitution into anything.. Or so they think.)
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To: robertpaulsen
The U.S. Constitution was written to define federal powers.

Then how do you explain these sections:

Art I, sec 10:

No State shall enter into any Treaty, Alliance, or Confederation; grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal; coin Money; emit Bills of Credit; make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts; pass any Bill of Attainder, ex post facto Law, or Law impairing the Obligation of Contracts, or grant any Title of Nobility.
No State shall, without the Consent of the Congress, lay any Imposts or Duties on Imports or Exports, except what may be absolutely necessary for executing it's inspection Laws; and the net Produce of all Duties and Imposts, laid by any State on Imports or Exports, shall be for the Use of the Treasury of the United States; and all such Laws shall be subject to the Revision and Controul of the Congress.

No State shall, without the Consent of Congress, lay any Duty of Tonnage, keep Troops, or Ships of War in time of Peace, enter into any Agreement or Compact with another State, or with a foreign Power, or engage in War, unless actually invaded, or in such imminent Danger as will not admit of delay.

or from Article. IV.
[Section 1.] Full Faith and Credit shall be given in each State to the public Acts, Records, and judicial Proceedings of every other State. And the Congress may by general Laws prescribe the Manner in which such Acts, Records and Proceedings shall be proved, and the Effect thereof.
[Section 2.] The Citizens of each State shall be entitled to all Privileges and Immunities of Citizens in the several States.
A Person charged in any State with Treason, Felony, or other Crime, who shall flee from Justice, and be found in another State, shall on Demand of the executive Authority of the State from which he fled, be delivered up, to be removed to the State having Jurisdiction of the Crime. No Person held to Service or Labour in one State, under the Laws thereof, escaping into another, shall, in Consequence of any Law or Regulation therein, be discharged from such Service or Labour, but shall be delivered up on Claim of the Party to whom such Service or Labour may be due.

Or Amendment X

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

Most of that seems to defining Powers of states as well.

134 posted on 12/03/2003 12:41:29 AM PST by El Gato (Federal Judges can twist the Constitution into anything.. Or so they think.)
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