Complaint says Santa unconstitutionally told kids the meaning of Christmas

KFVS ^ | December 3, 2003 | AP

[yonif]

Baldwin City, Kansas-AP -- The American Civil Liberties Union is complaining about a minister dressed as Santa Claus who talked to public school kids about the meaning of Christmas.

The A-C-L-U has asked officials to investigate whether elementary schools in Baldwin City, Kansas, allowed a Santa Claus impersonator to discuss Christmas and refer students who seemed to need guidance to Christian resources.

School officials are divided over whether that made him a bad Santa, but the A-C-L-U says he clearly violated the separation of church and state.

Just to be safe, Superintendent Jim White says Santa probably won't be invited back.

[Pan_Yans Wife]

allowed a Santa Claus impersonator

WHAT is that???

[RightOnline]

How true. We need Santas to fuel kids' greed for the latest/greatest toys and gadgets. God forbid (oops....................sorry...................I actually said "God") that we remind the kids what Christmas really is. Why, that is despicable. I'd rather see them thumbing through Abercrombie & Fitch catalogs than the dreaded Bible.

[Pan_Yans Wife]

Why do they call is separation of church and state, when what they mean to say is "separation of state from church"?

[LiteKeeper]

INTREP - Woe to those who call "good" "evil," and "evil" "good"

[footstomper]

A Santa impersonator-- What is that??

Great question. I am waiting for someone to enlighten me.

[Misterioso]

....what they mean to say is "separation of state from church"

....and the separation of church from state.

[im4given]

i hope your not seriously about the comment:

Why, that is despicable. I'd rather see them thumbing through Abercrombie & Fitch catalogs than the dreaded Bible.

[verity]

ACLU = secular Taliban.

[ThirstyMan]

We really don't celebrate Christmas in the United States anymore. We are fully in a post-Christian era. All that remains is this pseudo christmas full of secular fluff.
Really, do the easter bunny and santa clause or christmas trees or even material gifting have anything to do with the celebration of God's mission, sending Jesus Christ, His Son, to atone for our sins?

[sirchtruth]

allowed a Santa Claus impersonator

WHAT is that???

LOL! Yeah, exactly what is that??

[aruanan]

School officials are divided over whether that made him a bad Santa, but the A-C-L-U says he clearly violated the separation of church and state.

Rational people say the ACLU clearly doesn't know what it's talking about since Santa talking about Christmas isn't a church and a public school isn't a state.

[Rutles4Ever]

Nation of whimps....

[bulldogs]

Isn't there any Conservative law groups that take on the ACLU?

[arasina]

Do the letters ACLU now stand for Anti-Christian Leftist Union?

I suppose their next step is to remove Santa from their "Winter Holidays" because his name is derived from Saint Nicholas.

[Lijahsbubbe]

Yes, you're correct. He must have mentioned that all-dangerous Bible. That word must never be used as an indication of something good. Children can only be taught about how homosexuals stimulate each other, how to use condoms, and how to hate our country. The Bible is taboo.

Now let's take that last sentence and look at it for what it is.

The Bible Is Taboo

We're there. Scary, isn't it.

[elbucko]

The "Red Scare" continues. No, it's not the commies anymore, but Santa Claus. The Red Diaper Babies of the ACLU have turned the tables and are now after Santa, Jesus, Joseph and Mary. Allah be praised.

[Lijahsbubbe]

I suppose their next step is to remove Santa from their "Winter Holidays

Oh, you'd better believe it. Santa will be next.

[im4given]

and the bible is what are kids need

[muawiyah]

Given that the "Santa" image is undoubtedly derivative of the "little red man" (an alkaloid found in amanita muscaria) who mediated the spiritual experience of the Saami shaman, it would be difficult to figure out which side the ACLU was favoring here.

I've always suspected they were a bunch of dopers, but now they seem to have stepped off the planet completely.

Hide your stash! It's Xmas and they're loose!

[mlmr]

But it is not against the law to discuss the Nativity with children at Christmas. It is just as valid as discussing any and all other cultural events celebrated by our divese population.

[PhilipFreneau]

>> We're there. Scary, isn't it.

Yes it is, but this was prophesied. Paul wrote: "Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first. . ." (2 Thessalonians 2:3)

In chapter 12 of the Revelation of Jesus Christ the prophesy refers to the falling away in this manner: it talks about a great woman who brings forth a man-child to rule all nations -- one who is caught up unto God and his throne. Shortly thereafter the devil is cast out of heaven. When he realizes he has been cast out he persecutes the woman who brought forth the man-child. When the woman flees with her child into the wilderness, the devil cast out his mouth a flood after the woman. But the earth helps the woman and swallows up the flood. The devil then becomes wrought with the woman and makes war with the remnant of her seed -- those who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

We are now at that latter point where the devil is making war against those who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

[American Infidel]

I wonder if the ACLU would have been as upset if a guy in a Santa suit showed up to show school kids how to put condoms on a banana or to pontificate on the 'virtues' of abortion.

[Holly_P]

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1033026/posts

[Lijahsbubbe]

or to pontificate on the 'virtues' of abortion

They could find the nativity story very disturbing to them. After all, it is a story of a woman who conceived a Child and chose to have it, even though it was a very threatening situation for her. Then, having no accomodation, she has it in a cave (or stable). So the Child grows up to be a Savior. Now that doesn't bode too well for the pro-abortion crowd, does it?

[Viking2002]

It's either the ACLU or the United States of America. Only one can survive.

Make your choice and stand your ground.

[stands2reason]

I've been in the position of employing Santa Clauses. We called them "actors", not "impersonators."

And you treat your Santas very well. They are hard to find. The good ones can just about dictate their wages.

[cavtrooper21]

What you have to understand is that this is not the norm for Kansas..
Baldwin used to be a quiet farm town with strong conservitive and religious roots. However, in the last 15 years it has become a commuter community for Lawrence (San Fransisco of the Midwest, home of K(gay)U) and Johnson County (Kansas City). Where once kids were dropped off at school by bus and parents driving pickup trucks, there are now soccer moms in SUVs and minivans. $250,000 homes are to be found just north of town and along with the property values, the liberal tide is rising. I'm afraid to say that yet another bastion of conservitive America is slowly sliding beneath the encroaching puddle of sewage that is the New Age / Liberal / socialist model for our nation...

Rant over...

[Sir Charles]

***Really, do the easter bunny and santa clause or christmas trees or even material gifting have anything to do with the celebration of God's mission, sending Jesus Christ, His Son, to atone for our sins?***

Mostly agree, especially with the easter bunny, which I have never associated with Christ's resurrection. But the Christmas season, if fully connected to Church attendance and worship, can and should be a celebration of the joy of the birth of our Savior. To be sure, it's been commercialized almost to the point of destruction, and calling it "winter holiday" or some other camouflage is a disgrace. But Christmas still brings families together and can be a joyous time for those Christians who still remember what the season was meant to celebrate, at least as long as I can remember. We are still free to celebrate it as it was meant to be, regardless of what the non believers prefer.

[Dionysius]

Yeah! It'll be "Rudy the Red-tipped Rubber" and "Frostie the Vacuum".

[knak]

That's what's next huh? Getting rid of Christmas! We can't let anyone celebrate that, it might offend someone!

I AM SO SICK OF THIS CRAP!

[MattAMiller]

Of course I'm sure that everybody here would be thrilled if somebody went to a public school and urged the kids to look into Islamic resources.

How about we just don't have adults come into schools to instruct other people's kids in religous matters.

[Pan_Yans Wife]

It sounds like this rant may be over, but the woes of that community have just begun.

My condolences, from rural GA.

[Pan_Yans Wife]

How about we just don't have adults come into schools to instruct other people's kids

End the statement there...

and keep Planned Parenthood out of the schools, too!

[PFKEY]

As I understand Christmas. It is a holiday based on the birth of Christ. It is not a religious holiday in the sense that Christians are commanded to celebrate or observe it in any way.

Basically it is a secular holiday. With that in mind I see and have no issues with the way anybody chooses to celebrate Christmas short of turning in into a religious holiday wherein someone might incorporate it into a sunday worship service.

[MissAmericanPie]

What? Not a peep out of them about kids being taught Islam, fasting, and planning jihads in school?

Can we press charges against the ACLU with the Anti-American Activities Committee?

[PFKEY]

We are now at that latter point where the devil is making war against those who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

I would say that latter point that war has been going on since the begining of time. Since Adam and Eve.

Nothing new under the sun.

[Clintonfatigued]

This is bulls**t!

[Clintonfatigued]

Well, Santa Claus is based, in part, on St. Nicholas, a very devout Catholic bishop from southern Russia who was known for his cheerful disposition and generousity. And the tradidion of giving gifts was derived from the Three Wise Men giving gifts to Jesus and his parents. But your basic point is right: extreme, militant secularists are trying to deny mention of Christ on His birthday, and eventually put an end to any religious faith at all. They will succeed if people say they have already succeeded.

[cavtrooper21]

My wife and I saw the signs several years ago and made the choice between family values and property values..
We moved about 30 miles north of Lawrence to a little town at the end of a really rough 1 1/2 lane black top/cinder road. Keeps the rif-raf (soccer moms and yuppy liberals) out.
We still feed at the trough (we work in Lawrence) but we don't feel we need to wallow in the filth.

[BibChr]

You know... not the REAL Santa.

Dan

(Very funny catch!)

[American Infidel]

No question about it. If a representative from the plo, or hamas were to show up at one of these schools to instruct students in the "art of resistance to occupation" by going over the finer points of properly strapping explosives to oneself for maximum destruction of 'non-believers', the ACLU would be bending over backward to defend their 'first amendment rights' to do so.

[Lijahsbubbe]

Saint Nicholas of Myra (also called Nicholas of Bari) is said to have been born in Lycia, and was a bishop in the city of Myra (now Demre, Turkey) in the 4th century AD.

St. Nicholas is remembered on Dec. 6th (date of his passing). After the fall of Myra to Muslims, his remains were transported (or stolen) to Bari, Italy. These facts appear to be what little is known or agreed upon about St. Nicholas.

Here is some of the legend of Saint Nicholas:

The legends tell of how St. Nicholas, still sticky from the womb, rose up out of his first bath to fold his hands and raise his eyes to heaven in order to cleanse his heart before his body. He is also said to have taught his wet nurse about mortification by refusing her breast more than once on each Wednesday and Friday--a precocious exercise of asceticism!

Nicholas could have found communion with God in a monastic life, but to walk within the confines of a cloister would be insufficient for the saint's devotion. He wanted to be able to follow the footsteps of Jesus in the Palestine, which he did. On his voyages across the sea, he calmed the waves (which is why he is patron of sailors and travellers).

A citizen of Patara lost his fortune, and because he could not raise dowries for his three daughters, he was going to give them over to prostitution. After hearing this, Nicholas took a bag of gold and threw it through the window of the man's house at night. The eldest girl was married with it as her dowry. He performed the same action for each of the other girls. The three purses, portrayed in art with the saint, were mistakenly thought to be the heads of children, and thus originated the story that three children, murdered by an innkeeper and pickled in a tub of brine, were resuscitated by Nicholas. The three purses are also thought to be the origin of the pawnbrokers' symbol of three gold balls.

Another legend holds that he appeared to sailors caught in storms off the coast of Lycia and led them safely into port. Churches built under his dedication are often placed so that they can be seen off the coast as landmarks.

Yet another legend has it that he appeared to Constantine in a dream and thereby caused him to save three unjustly condemned imperial officers from death. Possibly another version says that the governor of Myra took a bribe to condemn to death three innocent men. The executioner was about to kill them when the bishop of the city, Nicholas, appeared and prevented the execution. Turning to the governor, the saint upbraided him till he confessed his sin and begged to be forgiven.

When Myra fell into the hands of the Saracens, Italian cities seized the chance to acquire the relics of Nicholas. The relics were stolen by Italian merchants and came to Bari in southern Italy in 1087. A new church was built to shelter them, and Pope Urban II was present at their enshrining. The already popular saint became even more highly regarded thereafter. The shrine became one of the great pilgrimage centers of medieval Europe. Many miracles were reputed to have been worked through his intercession.

The popular cultural representation of "St. Nick" is based on a combination of Low Countries' custom of giving children presents on his feast day as their patron, and the Dutch Protestants of New Amsterdam (now New York) linking this to Nordic folklore of a magician who punished naughty children and rewarded exemplary ones with presents. (It should be noted that the figure of Santa Claus is really non-Christian and is based on the Germanic god Thor, who was associated with winter and the Yule log and rode on a chariot drawn by goats named Cracker and Gnasher.)FUNNY!

Throughout Europe in the middle ages, St. Nicholas's feast day was the occasion for electing a Boy Bishop, who reigned until the feast of the Holy Innocents on December 28. Even in this century the custom survives in Montserrat in Catalonia, Spain (Attwater, Benedictines, Bentley, Delaney, Encyclopedia, White).

St. Nicholas's emblem in art is three balls. Sometimes he is portrayed (1) as a young man throwing three golden balls into the window of three poor girls; (2) raising three children from a pickle tub; (3) rescuing survivors from a shipwreck; (4) reviving a man unjustly hanged (not to be confused with Nicholas of Tolentino, who is never a bishop); or (5) as a new-born babe praising God. Venerated at Bari, Monserrat, and Russia (Roeder).

Patron of children (Santa Claus, Sint Klaus), bankers, captives (because of the rescue), pawnbrokers (three balls), and sailors (for miraculously saving doomed mariners off the coast of Lycia) (Roeder), brides, unmarried women (because he provided dowries), perfumers (from his shrine at Bari there was said to originate a fragrant 'myrrh'), of travellers, pilgrims, and safe journeys (because he reputedly travelled to the Holy Land and Egypt), maritime pilots (White), boatmen, fishermen, sailors, dock workers, stevedores, brewers, coopers, bootblacks, the unjustly judged, and poets (Encyclopedia). Russia, Greece, Sicily, Lorraine, Moscow, Freibourg, and Apulia all fall under his patronage, too (White).

[tet68]

allowed a Santa Claus impersonator

WHAT is that???

LOL! Yeah, exactly what is that??


You know, someone of an alternate gender/ethnic profile who cross identifies with a scandinavian father figure, and who
role plays during Festivus.

[ThirstyMan]

Well, Santa Claus is based, in part, on St. Nicholas, a very devout Catholic bishop from southern Russia who was known for his cheerful disposition and generousity.

Well thanks for the explanation. I kinda knew that history but when I see a snowman named Frosty and those reindeer being led by Rudolph [red nosed] and a sleigh containing that folk hero Santa, I see lots of secularism. It's a way for nonChristians to participate in our celebration I guess. They want to participate in the "holiday season" too.

Heh it's a fun bunch of folklore. It's just getting to the point where Christmas is being promoted entirely in this secular mode...so as to not offend and because fewer and fewer people really know about the baby, the lamb of God who came to take away the sin of the world.

[ThirstyMan]

I agree with what you've said, especially:

To be sure, it's been commercialized almost to the point of destruction, and calling it "winter holiday" or some other camouflage is a disgrace.

That's what I'm reacting to. Our secular culture is in charge now, taking Christmas and sanitizing it, especially in the schools. Everyone seems compelled to say, "Season'Greetings" or "Happy Holidays." Just another sad evidence of our cultural drift away from the Christian base.

[RightOnline]

What do you think? :)

[PhilipFreneau]

>> I would say that latter point that war has been going on since the begining of time. Since Adam and Eve.

True, but the previous context was after the devil was cast out of heaven. Read the entire chapter. It is enlightening.

[PFKEY]

but the previous context was after the devil was cast out of heaven.

Not sure I'm following. Are you saying the devil was in heaven at the time Adam and Eve were in the garden and that he has remained there until recently?

[usadave]

but the A-C-L-U says he clearly violated the separation of church and state.

There's that gosh darn "separation of church and state" reference being made by the ACLU again. As many times as I've checked the U.S. Constitution, I've failed to find this phrase listed anywhere in it.