Cyprus and Greece

Essay | Dec. 4th, 2003 | George Post

[katnip]

Yawnnnn.

I'm bored with you now.

No one believes or cares about your crap anyway.

[wtc911]

Exactly. I especially like the part about hate sermons in church, coming from a (presumed) mohameddan(!) In five decades I have never heard one sermon in church (RC) that was even about turks or muslims.

I would have pinged out turk friend but I think he's already here.

A side note, considering how much cash collected in mosques and muslim groups here in America finds its way to the islamic terrorists (according to numerous sources) I wonder if the good little cultists here know where their tithings end up.

[wtc911]

btw...a quick google shows nothing related to an essayist or writer named "george post". I do believe you have rightly caught the chief propagandist out in the open without a tree to hide behind.

[katnip]

I think the funniest part is he thinks I'm Greek. As if only a Greek would argue his "revised" history and self-absorbed greatness.

[rightisright]

Ahem...

No one cares about what you have to say. The Americans on this site who have supported Turkey on many past occassions know exactly what to expect from Turks based on how they treated us when we needed them several times over the past several months.

So you can forget about all of this ancient history and realize that as far as I'm concerned both Greece and Turkey can go straight to hell

[wtc911]

Argue any of the turk "facts" and wait for the posse to show up for the lynching. Some of these folks are turks in turkey and their position is somewhat excusable. The ones who disappoint are those Americans who seem that their job here is to carry turkey's water. From what I can tell most of these spent time in turkey and are impressed by the fact that the turks didn't spit on them and are kind to their elders. Talk about turkey's back-stabbing of our troops and they'll either tell you how much fun turks really are or they will descend immediately to ad hominum attacks. The fact that US troops were put in greater danger than was necessary by turkey's actions seems to bother them not one bit.

[pkpjamestown]

http://www.cyprus-conflict.net/narrative-main.htm

[pkpjamestown]

Chess In Cyprus – Very Few Moves And Pieces Left

Ugur Akinci: 12/4/2003

by Ugur Akinci, Ph.D.

http://tork.blogspot.com


Turkish Government has paid Greek-Cypriot plaintiff Ms. Titiana Loizidou 1,120,000 Euros in compensation for her property currently inside the borders of the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus.

Hürriyet's Cüneyt Ulsever put it very succinctly: “By accepting the verdict Turkey has also accepted the reasoning behind the verdict. The reasoning behind the verdict completely denies the Turkish perspective on Cyprus. I wonder how Turkish hawks will deal with the new contradictory position they have adopted with the Loizidou case.”

The original 1998 compensation awarded by the European Court of Human Rights (ECHR) was 650,000 Euros. Turkey ended up paying an interest on the original amount as an additional penalty, almost adding insult to injury.

The ECHR verdict was resisted by Ankara for years and the issue has been dragged out in a series of legal maneuvers. Now it's over. With that check, Ankara officially admitted that Greek-Cypriots like Ms. Loizidou do have a right to compensation for their properties left in the North and for being prevented from visiting their property.

No doubt, the Turkish-Cypriots also do have similar properties left in the South and they could also file compensation suits in the future. But given the current international environment favoring the Greek-Cypriots and that nobody except Turkey recognizes TRNC as a legitimate political entity, I'm not certain if the Turkish-Cypriots would have a fair hearing at ECHR.

But one thing is for sure -- if the status quo continues over the next year, there will be hundreds of similar Greek-Cypriot cases taken to ECHR in 2005. Even though ECHR supposedly agreed that the Loizidou case will not be treated as a precedent, I have a feeling that Turkey might again be forced to pay hundreds of millions of dollars in additional compensation. Each payment will erode Turkey's already eroded political position even more.

The alternative, refusing to comply with ECHR verdicts altogether, would mean shutting the EU door close with a loud bang. That's not a solution either.

I remember the day about 4 or 5 years ago when I've personally heard a member of the Ecevit coalition government confidently and categorically stating at a Washington D.C. meeting that the “Cyprus issue is already solved” and that if the Greek-Cypriots pushed it, Turkey could “integrate” the Northern Cyprus as a last resort.

What is this well-educated social-democrat gentleman thinking these days, I wonder? Does he still think that the Cyprus issue is “solved already”? Well, perhaps it indeed is “solved already” but certainly not in the way he expected. It's sad.

In May 2004, Greek-Cyprus will join the European Union as the Government of Cyprus, representing the whole island. And due to their new status as a sovereign EU country, they will gain the right to open an embassy in Ankara.

But Ankara does not recognize the Greek-Cyprus government. So what will happen then? Will Turkey create a diplomatic scandal of international proportions by denying representation to an EU country in Ankara while she herself is trying to be represented in Brussels? I can almost see the headlines on CNN.

Or will Ankara allow the Government of Cyprus open an Embassy while pretending it's not even there? How will the Cypriot Ambassador visit the Turkish President to present his or her credentials? What a mess...

And after May 2004, what will happen to the status of the Turkish Defense Forces in the Northern part of the island? The slightest suggestion from Brussels that the majority of the Turkish troops might be forced to withdraw from the island has already whipped up a storm of indignation in the Turkish press.

If TRNC President Denktas' party wins the Turkish-Cypriot elections on December 14, then the chances are he will continue defending the “status quo” because the Greek-Cypriots right now have almost no reason whatsoever to compromise on anything. They seem to be holding all the pawns-promoted-to-queens in the Cyprus Chess.

How will the AKP government continue walking on the road that supposedly leads to Turkey's EU full-membership if the status quo is preserved? How will AKP prevail in its mission without recognizing the Greek-Cypriot government as a new EU member? Will the Erdogan government be able to stay in power for too long if Turkey's EU application process is ditched for good due to blowing a couple of tires while trying to negotiate around Cyprus?

I understand this decision is celebrated by some in Ankara as a “victory for Turkey and the Turkish Foreign Ministry” because supposedly the case will not set a precedent for future lawsuits. Perhaps that is the case. I am not a diplomat or a lawyer with expertise in international law to fully appraise the technical merits of the development. But, I know how over the past decades Turkish positions slipped and slided in unexpected directions even on surfaces that was certified to be 100% safe. Things change every day. So if I were Ankara I wouldn't put all my eggs in ECHR's promise basket, yet.

After Loizidou, I cannot see how Turkey will be able to join the EU without at least agreeing to talk and negotiate over the Annan Plan for Cyprus.

There are very few pieces and moves left in this chess game.

[WashingtonRules]

Would expect us to help the Brits out to invade Mexico, house 100,000 British troops on our soil, send countless sorties and bombs. All of this with no guarantee of outcome, no definitive plan, or no consulting? Or how about, no retribution for destroying the investments in Mexico and the trade losses which account to 5 billion yearly.

Should we get into the cause and effect of attacking an Arab nation at the height of the animosity of them towards the US and the economic depravation of the region, which will only breed more fighters(or terrorists)?

I think you should judge friendship on what friends will do to help you without letting themselves be destroyed for a mission that really had no benefit for the US to begin with...

[WashingtonRules]

Would you expect us to help the Brits out to invade Mexico, house 100,000 British troops on our soil, send countless sorties and bombs. All of this with no guarantee of outcome, no definitive plan, or no consulting? Or how about, no retribution for destroying the investments in Mexico and the trade losses which account to 5 billion yearly.

Should we get into the cause and effect of attacking an Arab nation at the height of the animosity of them towards the US and the economic depravation of the region, which will only breed more fighters(or terrorists)?

I think you should judge friendship on what friends will do to help you without letting themselves be destroyed for a mission that really had no benefit for the US to begin with...

[katnip]

The Greeks burned down Izmir(Smyrna)

I wonder if a newbie posted an essay claiming it was the Jews who put Germans in the ovens, how long it would last here?

[wtc911]

My attitude toward turkey's modern history of duplicitous foreign policy is well documented here. Your nonsense is wasted on me.

[WashingtonRules]

Modern Turkiye has an excellent history of Global Relations. They do not start their Presidential speeches with scripture, though they are 99% moderate Muslims. They do not send spies to other nations to raise havoc, teach them how to terrorize, then wage war on them claiming, You're Either With Us or Against Us.

Its a free country. You don't need to waste your time. Just respond to another topic. Turks are friends up to a point. When you covertly threaten them, you directly threaten them and lose their trust. Its a fine line and one wonders why Bush chose to chastise his strong allies, then to work with them and understand them.

Turkey had been fighting terrorism(large due to Russia,Greece, Germany, France, UK and US) for 3 decades. When they targetted Islamic Fundamentalist Terror(much similar to Christian Terror Groups), they ask for help from Europe and the US to extradite known members with terror links. They all had buffed Turkey aside because terror was not a concern. It did not hit home for them. Anti Secular and Leftist terrorists were treated like royalty in European capitals and some are falsely made spokesman for Kurdish/Armenian groups(here in the US). Germany didn't give any of them up, citing Germany's supreme rights of individuals in their country protected them, even from terrorism charges.

So now we have people like wtc911, suddenly at war against terrorism, and still holding on to their racist views, with a modified strain that does not acknowledge past faults. So is the attitude of the "west"towards a people that have only been friendly for 80 years. But time may run out...

[wtc911]

In your free turkey do girls still have to go through a government mandated virginity test to qualify as morally acceptable for nursing school or did those turkish girls who killed themselves rather than submit change the law?

Isn't your free turkey still closing down Christian churches and media outlets?

As a trustworthy ally turkey is a joke. No amount of your propaganda will change that. Neither will labelling anyone who doesn't carry your water a racist. That's an old trick of the left.

And what is a moderate muslim? One who doesn't pull the trigger himself?

[Hlias9]

Well, I was reading carefully what you wrote and at the very least you are cluless as to what the events of 1974 were.There were no Greek army troops in Cyprus and the national guard was less that 1000 people. Please let us borrow some of your barbaric history since Plato and Socrates are not worthy enough. Turkey has no cultural value whatsoever.As of the Turksish Cypriots have suffered none of the Greeks of Asia Minor and Kostantinople...BUT once a barbarian ALWAYS a barbarian....