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(California State)Senate Rejects Governor Schwarzenegger's Budget Plan
BakersFieldChannel ^ | DEc. 5, 2003 | BakersFieldChannel

Posted on 12/05/2003 10:27:22 PM PST by FairOpinion

SACRAMENTO, Calif. -- The state Senate has turned down Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger's budget package. That leaves little possibility for a last-minute agreement as the clock ticks toward Friday's midnight deadline to put measures on the March ballot.

Senators vote 34-0 against the governor's plan to cap spending, with even Republicans voting no after the outcome became clear. The governor's bond measure also lost.

At the same time, counter proposals from Democrats failed to get the two-thirds majorities needed for passage.

Senate Republican leader Jim Brulte of Rancho Cucamonga is warning that Republicans will try to put an even tougher spending limit on the November ballot if the negotiations fail to produce a March ballot agreement.

Schwarzenegger wants voters to consider his idea for borrowing up to $15 billion to wipe out the state's existing deficit.

He also wants the Legislature to place a spending cap on the spring ballot.


TOPICS: Front Page News; News/Current Events; US: California
KEYWORDS: calgov2002; catrans; schwarzenegger
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What's wrong with the Republicans?!

Senators voted UNANIMOUSLY against Arnold's plan to cap spending!!!!!!!

Time to clean house in the CA Legislature -- in BOTH parties!!!!!!

1 posted on 12/05/2003 10:27:23 PM PST by FairOpinion
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To: FairOpinion
with even Republicans voting no after the outcome became clear.

Why vote for the compromise measure, when the compromise is killed by the opposition? You do get it don't you?

2 posted on 12/05/2003 10:31:23 PM PST by Torie
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To: FairOpinion
Californian politicians, with only a handful of exceptions, are imbeciles.
3 posted on 12/05/2003 10:32:15 PM PST by KellyAdmirer
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To: FairOpinion
Best news I have heard all day. Thank God this bond measure failed. Otherwise, all Americans would have to bail out CA when the bond would mature and CA wouldn't have any money to pay it.
4 posted on 12/05/2003 10:32:51 PM PST by FirstPrinciple
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To: FairOpinion
Audacious.
5 posted on 12/05/2003 10:33:49 PM PST by savedbygrace
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To: FairOpinion
Its not like he could ask Bush for any support to limit government spending.

He'd do better asking Jimmy Carter for help!
6 posted on 12/05/2003 10:34:25 PM PST by Kay Soze (Liberal Homosexuals kill more people than Global Warming, SUVs’, Firearms & Terrorism combined.)
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To: FirstPrinciple
Best news I have heard all day. Thank God this bond measure failed.

Then you oughtta love this:

Arnold "Quietly" Approves....

7 posted on 12/05/2003 10:38:27 PM PST by Lancey Howard
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To: Torie
If this measure doesn't get on the March ballot, CA will be OUT OF MONEY IN JUNE!

(California) State Cash Supply Is Dwindling (OUT OF CASH IN SIX MONTHS)

Over the next few months, lawmakers must act quickly to find ways to keep from running out of cash in June — when the state must repay $14 billion in short-term loans taken out to keep the state solvent last summer. Without a large bond, such as the $15-billion long-term borrowing proposed by Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger, the state won't have money to make those payments.

Many budget experts in Sacramento and elsewhere agree that trying to pay back the loans due in June without a large, long-term bond is close to impossible at this point. The state simply wouldn't have enough cash on hand, even if it enacted massive cuts in programs and services.

One option would be for lawmakers and Schwarzenegger to agree on raising taxes. But that is unlikely because the governor has said repeatedly that he would not support a tax increase.

===

The Democrats want to leave Arnold NO other option, except to raise taxes, and the Republicans are helping the Democrats to put Arnold in that position.

You DO get it, don't you?

8 posted on 12/05/2003 10:39:09 PM PST by FairOpinion
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To: FairOpinion

The governor's bond measure also lost.

That's good news. It was a bad idea.

The bad news is that Schwarzenegger is trying to revive Gray Davis' illegal $10.7 billion bond that bypasses the voters...

After saying for weeks there would be no option for putting a big bond measure on the spring ballot, Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger quietly gave the green light Friday to a plan to borrow $10.7 billion without voter approval.

Last summer, the Legislature authorized the bond sale as part of the budget agreement signed by former Gov. Gray Davis. But taxpayer groups, as well as many Republican lawmakers, criticized the deal, saying borrowing of that magnitude should be approved by voters.

One group, the Pacific Legal Foundation, filed a lawsuit in September, arguing the proposal to sell $10.7 billion of deficit-financing bonds should be ruled invalid because of provisions in the California Constitution that prevents the Legislature from taking on more than $300,000 in long-term debt without approval of the voters.
CA: Governor OKs borrowing plan
AP - December 5th, 2003 (FR link)


9 posted on 12/05/2003 10:41:27 PM PST by Sabertooth (Credit where it's due: saveourlicense.com prevented SB60, and the Illegal Alien CDLs... for now.)
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To: FairOpinion
Oh, and anyone cares to guess, WHY do the Dems want to leave Arnold no other choice than to raise taxes in June -- months before the 2004 elections?

They want to kill any chances for Republicans.

And the CA Republicans obligingly cooperating with the Dems. because they want a "tougher measure", which they will never get.

More of the same, if we can't get everything, let's destroy CA and kill any chances for any Republicans for the next 20 years on CA. Great going! (/major sarcasm)
10 posted on 12/05/2003 10:41:43 PM PST by FairOpinion
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To: FairOpinion
It didn't take that stupid California legislature long to forget how mad we all are did it?
11 posted on 12/05/2003 10:43:16 PM PST by ladyinred (The Left have blood on their hands!)
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To: FirstPrinciple
The bonds would not "mature" all at once on a specific date. They are paid off over X years.
12 posted on 12/05/2003 10:46:05 PM PST by fleur-de-lis
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To: FairOpinion
If this measure doesn't get on the March ballot, CA will be OUT OF MONEY IN JUNE!

Good. It needs to happen.

The Democrats want to leave Arnold NO other option, except to raise taxes, and the Republicans are helping the Democrats to put Arnold in that position.

Not true. He can wait them out and force them to cut spending.

Besides, his $15 billion bond measure was just a delayed tax increase anyway.


13 posted on 12/05/2003 10:47:37 PM PST by Sabertooth (Credit where it's due: saveourlicense.com prevented SB60, and the Illegal Alien CDLs... for now.)
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To: Dark Wing
ping
14 posted on 12/05/2003 10:48:49 PM PST by Thud
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To: FairOpinion
The state simply wouldn't have enough cash on hand, even if it enacted massive cuts in programs and services.

Therefore, the parasites have their excuse to not even try massive cuts in programs and services.

What's that flushing sound I hear? Oh yeah, it's CA's economic prospects.

15 posted on 12/05/2003 10:49:05 PM PST by Hank Rearden (Dick Gephardt. Before he dicks you.)
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To: ladyinred
"It didn't take that stupid California legislature long to forget how mad we all are did it?"

===

If they think we are mad now -- let them wait and see how mad we'll be in November, after CA either raises taxes or files bankruptcy, because we can't pay off the huge short term debt due in June.

The way I feel right now, I would like to see every single incumbent defeated, BAR NONE, for handing the Democrats a resounding victory of defeating Arnold's sensible approach, the only sensible approach to get out of the budget CRISIS.

After this, I bet the Dems are aleady counting CA in the Dem column for every single statewide office and presidential elections for the next 50 years and the Republicans helped them do it, for the same old excuse, "we will pass a tougher measure later" -- sure they will, so they rather have the Dems have a 100% victory.
16 posted on 12/05/2003 10:50:14 PM PST by FairOpinion
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To: Sabertooth
I don't understand...He's just REFINANCING THE EXISTING DEBT. What is so bad about that?
17 posted on 12/05/2003 10:52:49 PM PST by Hildy
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To: Hank Rearden
"What's that flushing sound I hear? Oh yeah, it's CA's economic prospects."

===

And it may ripple through the US economy -- people keep forgetting that CA is the WORLD's 5th largest economy.

Things are looking up for the Dems in 2004 -- if they can tank the US economy, they can use the old slogan they used against Bush's Father: "It's the economy, stupid".

And the stupid CA Republicans in the Legislature can't seem to think ahead two microsecond -- what were they thinking, handing the Dems a UNANIMOUS victory?!
18 posted on 12/05/2003 10:53:21 PM PST by FairOpinion
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To: FairOpinion
Yeah, I don't get this. Republican legislators should have gone on the record voting for Arnold's bill, demonstrating to the California public that Arnold's concepts of capping spending and issuing bonds are the right ideas. That Arnold's proposals are rejected unanimously gives the impression to the public that Arnold doesn't know what he's doing. Republicans could still push the tough measure on the November ballot. Now it's hard to go to the public and say Democrats, exclusively, voted to bankrupt California come summer of next year.
19 posted on 12/05/2003 10:59:01 PM PST by jagrmeister (I'm not a conservative. I don't seek to conserve, I seek to reform.)
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To: FairOpinion; NormsRevenge; Grampa Dave; Carry_Okie; DoctorZIn; RonDog; seenenuf; Hildy
Right!
20 posted on 12/05/2003 11:00:14 PM PST by Ernest_at_the_Beach (Davis is now out of Arnoold's Office , Bout Time!!!!)
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To: Sabertooth
Since the only other options are to raise taxes or actually begin to stop wasteful spending and enable revival of economic growth, maybe now Arnold will be amenable to considering actual solutions of the state's problems. Let's hope he breaks through his circle of advisors on the conventional wisdom and actually looks at the problems rather than having them "explained" to him.
21 posted on 12/05/2003 11:00:28 PM PST by AmericanVictory (Should we be more like them, or they like us?)
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To: farmfriend
How about pinging those interested in this?
22 posted on 12/05/2003 11:01:48 PM PST by Ernest_at_the_Beach (Davis is now out of Arnoold's Office , Bout Time!!!!)
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To: jagrmeister
"Now it's hard to go to the public and say Democrats, exclusively, voted to bankrupt California come summer of next year."

===

YOU get it. I get it. It seems none of the Republican in the CA Senate get it, and I don't see many others around here who get it. What's the matter with them?!

One tiny good news, if we can call it that, at least the assembly has a few Republicans with spines -- for a minute, but then they went ahead and spoiled it, by allowing the Dems proposals to pass, which is an even worse disaster to CA, than the current crisis, because it will allow them to raise taxes by simple majority

"Meanwhile, the Assembly Budget Committee also defeated the governor's proposals and blocked them from going to the floor. The spending cap lost 9-14, while the bond plan failed 10-15. Two counterproposals from Democrats were approved and are expected to be considered on the Assembly floor. "

This is from another article at:
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/state/20031205-2154-ca-statebudget.html




23 posted on 12/05/2003 11:06:02 PM PST by FairOpinion
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To: FairOpinion
Read, dude. You post the article, you should probably have done that.
24 posted on 12/05/2003 11:12:27 PM PST by LibertarianInExile (When laws are regularly flouted, respect of the law and law enforcement diminishes correspondingly.)
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To: FairOpinion
Two counterproposals from Democrats were approved and are expected to be considered on the Assembly floor. "

Now Arnoold may get to use the Veto Pen!

25 posted on 12/05/2003 11:12:46 PM PST by Ernest_at_the_Beach (Davis is now out of Arnoold's Office , Bout Time!!!!)
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To: Hildy
I don't understand...He's just REFINANCING THE EXISTING DEBT. What is so bad about that

Why do we have that debt?

Since 1998, the state has grown by 21% and revenues have grown by 28%. State spending increased by almost 37% during the same time period. We need to get our spending under control.
Arnold Schwarzenegger - joinarnold.com

We shouldn't refinance it, we should cut the spending. Spending is the problem.


26 posted on 12/05/2003 11:14:45 PM PST by Sabertooth (Credit where it's due: saveourlicense.com prevented SB60, and the Illegal Alien CDLs... for now.)
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To: FairOpinion
"What's wrong with the Republicans?!"

A socialist is a socialist under any party flag.
27 posted on 12/05/2003 11:20:39 PM PST by mysterio
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To: Sabertooth
But a debt is a debt. It has to paid, right? What am I missing? Spending cuts will help avoid FUTURE Debts, but nonetheless, this debt ain't going away. Please, explain this to me.
28 posted on 12/05/2003 11:22:52 PM PST by Hildy
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To: mysterio
"A socialist is a socialist under any party flag."

===

ALL the Republicans in the CA Senate?!
29 posted on 12/05/2003 11:23:01 PM PST by FairOpinion
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To: nopardons
PING

Republicans hand Dems resounding victory -- defeating Arnold's plan to rescue CA, by unanimous vote in the CA Senate.

More Republican "purity" at work, let the Dems win, than do the sensible thing.
30 posted on 12/05/2003 11:24:30 PM PST by FairOpinion
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To: LibertarianInExile
"Read, dude. You post the article, you should probably have done that."

===

I read it. What many people need to do, including the Republicans in the Legislature, is THINK! Apparently that is too much to expect.
31 posted on 12/05/2003 11:26:12 PM PST by FairOpinion
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To: FairOpinion
They are socialists, statists, spineless, or all three.
32 posted on 12/05/2003 11:29:07 PM PST by mysterio
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To: mysterio
"They are socialists, statists, spineless, or all three."

==

I think it's "all of the above" and I have a few additional choice words, but I just add: "throw ALL the bums out" in November!
33 posted on 12/05/2003 11:33:33 PM PST by FairOpinion
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To: FairOpinion
Go get 'em, Arnold!
34 posted on 12/05/2003 11:33:41 PM PST by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: FirstPrinciple
"all Americans would have to bail out CA when the bond would mature and CA wouldn't have any money to pay it."

===

Newsflash: CA has short term bonds due in June, which they can't pay, since this bond measure didn't pass. I guess CA will either go bankrupt in June, or Arnold raises taxes, or the Federal government bails CA out -- in any of these cases the Republicans can kiss CA goodbye for the next 30 years, which make the Dems, and I guess people, like you who really want to see the Dems in charge, very happy.
35 posted on 12/05/2003 11:36:45 PM PST by FairOpinion
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To: Hildy
But a debt is a debt. It has to paid, right? What am I missing?

Money is fungible. Politicians are forever telling us that we need to pass this or that bond and incur more debt for some dire emergency, or they'll cut vital services. They play the voters for chumps, and the voters usually oblige.

Meantime, the greed, theft, waste, and corruption of the political elites carries on, unabated.

The hell with them. There is no need to borrow money when they're wasting money.

They're bluffing, and I'm calling.


36 posted on 12/05/2003 11:38:04 PM PST by Sabertooth (Credit where it's due: saveourlicense.com prevented SB60, and the Illegal Alien CDLs... for now.)
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To: Sabertooth
I heard Arnold talking about this. He said it's ONLY refinancing. He's not a politician. He's not standing around waiting to hand out goodies. I believe him. He said it's the start of getting back on track. Consolodating and refinancing doesn't seem like such a bad idea to me.
37 posted on 12/05/2003 11:43:51 PM PST by Hildy
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To: FairOpinion
I have to imagine that there is a different explanation for the Republicans in the Senate voting against the bond.

We just don't know the strategy yet.

Brulte supported Arnold's candidacy.

Republicans only voted against when it was clear it would fail.

So there's a strategy, I think, or at least a rationale...

38 posted on 12/05/2003 11:44:32 PM PST by SteveH
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To: SteveH; Jagermeister
The reason doesn't matter -- only the result.

The bottom line is that they handed a Dems a resounding victory, instead of making a stand.

As Jagermeister said, now the Republicans lost the issue, they can't say that the Dems were the ones who scuttled Arnold's rescue CA strategy, by voting with them.
39 posted on 12/05/2003 11:48:39 PM PST by FairOpinion
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To: Sabertooth
Meantime, the greed, theft, waste, and corruption of the political elites carries on, unabated.

The hell with them. There is no need to borrow money when they're wasting money.

They're bluffing, and I'm calling.

Totally agree!

40 posted on 12/05/2003 11:49:05 PM PST by SteveH
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To: FairOpinion
I'm unconvinced that things are as dire as you predict. California can have another ballot election prior to June. It just costs a little more.

Likewise, the increased revenues that California is receiving from the current recovery could open up some new financing options, as could the state selling property.

In fact, the state could sell perennial money makers (toll bridges, for instance, also airports, dockyards, forests, etc.). Or the state could lease those assets in exchange for a big upfront payment. Ditto for a deal struck by Arnold that gives the Indian casinos more slot machines in exchange for an upfront payment timed to make the June bonds.

Also, Arnold has enormous popularity. He's the odds-on favorite to win any pissing contest with the Legislature, should Arnold decide to go to the mat and let the state run out of money altogether. "They voted down my plan, and now they complain that they have no money" when said by Governor Arnold will make one heck of a soundbite on the nightly news.

41 posted on 12/05/2003 11:51:29 PM PST by Southack (Media bias means that Castro won't be punished for Cuban war crimes against Black Angolans in Africa)
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To: Hildy




I heard Arnold talking about this. He said it's ONLY refinancing.

Then vote for more debt and spending. I'll vote against both.


42 posted on 12/05/2003 11:53:00 PM PST by Sabertooth (Credit where it's due: saveourlicense.com prevented SB60, and the Illegal Alien CDLs... for now.)
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To: Sabertooth
AAARRRGGGHHHH....BUT THE DEBT HAS TO BE PAID. What part of that don't you understand. He can cut everything 50% and we'd still have to pay off this debt.
43 posted on 12/05/2003 11:54:58 PM PST by Hildy
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To: FairOpinion
The reason doesn't matter -- only the result.

But the immediate result would not have changed, even if the Republicans had all voted for the bond.

Their vote was symbolic either way.

So what was lost and what was gained?

Let me speculate a bit just for a moment.

If the Republicans had voted "yes", and the bill lost anyway, the Democrats could come back with a DIFFERENT bond bill, and a much worse one. How would you like a $30M bond, or a $60M bond, and raised spending? Then the Democrats could say to the Republicans, why not vote for this bond, since you voted for last one? And the Republicans would find it more difficult to argue against.

So the strategy might be to force Democrats into a box canyon: no raise in taxes, no bond bailout.

Only alternative left: lower spending.

Just a thought... ;-)

44 posted on 12/05/2003 11:55:44 PM PST by SteveH
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To: Southack
"California can have another ballot election prior to June."

===

The Legislature had to approve the measures to put them on the March ballot. The deadline is in 3 minutes: midnight today.

Since the legislature rejected it, it won't appear on the March ballot.

Because the R-s voted with the Dems to unanimously defeat Arnold's proposal, they can't say that it's the Dems fault that the budget crisis will get worse. They voluntarily forfeited a major issue, and showed their non-support for a governor of their own party, who is desperately trying to save the state. Shame on all of them.
45 posted on 12/05/2003 11:58:05 PM PST by FairOpinion
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To: Hildy
AAARRRGGGHHHH....BUT THE DEBT HAS TO BE PAID. What part of that don't you understand. He can cut everything 50% and we'd still have to pay off this debt.

You should have voted for someone else, then.

McClintock outlined ways to get back in the black without borrowing, and without 50% cuts.

I'm totally OK with a full fledged government shut down, if that's the best that Schwarzenegger can do. It needs to happen.


46 posted on 12/05/2003 11:59:06 PM PST by Sabertooth (Credit where it's due: saveourlicense.com prevented SB60, and the Illegal Alien CDLs... for now.)
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To: FairOpinion
Did you ever consider that maybe it was because Arnold's proposed cap sucked?
47 posted on 12/06/2003 12:06:21 AM PST by TheAngryClam (Don't blame me, I voted for McClintock.)
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To: Hildy
A good portion of that existing debt is in lieu of current cuts, so no, it's not "just refinancing" even though he's trying to sell it to you as if it were.
48 posted on 12/06/2003 12:10:01 AM PST by TheAngryClam (Don't blame me, I voted for McClintock.)
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To: Sabertooth
"I'm totally OK with a full fledged government shut down, if that's the best that Schwarzenegger can do."

To be honest, the Dems have far more at stake over this issue than we do. This state is "theirs" by numbers of Registered voters and by numbers of elected officials, after all, so if the public chooses to blame them for a June bond default and a government shutdown, then it is their entrenched powerbase that will get hammered.

At most, Republicans can lose their non-controlling interest in the state...i.e. a completely meaningless loss.

So with little to no downside for us Pubbies, and complete downside potential for Dems (should the voters so choose to be swayed that way), I say go for it. Shut down the state government if need be.

But in all fairness, this isn't all Arnold's doing. He is going up against a hostile opposition Legislature, after all.

Of course, that fact not only gives him an alibi should things go wrong for him, but it also opens up numerous ways to "win" politically. For instance, if Arnold makes reasonable budget proposals that all get shot down by the Legislature, then no doubt the public at large will sympathize with the Governor rather than with the Legislature. So Arnold doesn't even have to get his own budget passed to "win" here.

Likewise, the public is probably going to be pretty favorable to whatever budget that Arnold puts on the next ballot election, whenever that next option may be available.

Frankly, it's going to be difficult for the Dems to play hardball and still win the sympathy of the voters should the state government shut down.

Their current behavior indicates that they haven't correctly judged the new political climate.

If so, then hand them some more rope... as they are about to run headfirst off a cliff with a noose around their collective necks.

49 posted on 12/06/2003 12:12:49 AM PST by Southack (Media bias means that Castro won't be punished for Cuban war crimes against Black Angolans in Africa)
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To: Hildy
Uh, yes Arnold is a politician. That's what that whole election was about and all.
50 posted on 12/06/2003 12:12:55 AM PST by TheAngryClam (Don't blame me, I voted for McClintock.)
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