NASA Relies On Thrusters To Steer Space Station After Malfunction

AP via CNN ^ | December 6, 2003 | AP

[RightWhale]

If I remember right we have 3 crawlers???

Funny thing, there were several crawlers at Prudhoe Bay while the camp modules were being erected. We estimated that if someone stole one and drove off we could still see him headed down the road the next day. These crawlers weren't as big as the ones at Cape Canaveral, but the modules are only about ten storeys tall, built in Seattle and delivered by barge in summer.

[RightWhale]

was doing detector development work for the SSC

I worked on the SSC also, for the State Governor trying to procure the project. One thing I wondered is why they didn't call it the SCSC or the SC2.

[Gracey]

When I was at KSC, I was fortunate enough to be able to walk beside a crawler as the Atlantis was being transported to the pad

So what was it like??? I bet just one of those steel bars is bigger than you.

[Gracey]

NASA was deliberately used to get some economic industry going in the South. True, placing the Johnson...

Personally, I'd say it had less to do with economic development in the South and more to do with locating it on property owned by the Vice President Johnson's family. The Johnson's made a lot of money... It would have been much more feasible and cost effective to the taxpayers if they chose to locate Mission Control/Astronaut training in Cape Canaveral area, close to the launch site. Don't you think??? At the time, Florida had very little industry, outside of the citrus business.

[Gracey]

Several times a few years back, they broke part way out

Hmmmm. I usually heard about trouble areas of anything Shuttle related... Must have been rather recent. Sorry to hear the news.

[ArrogantBustard]

I'm orthogonal to your insults.

Hah! Wonderful turn of phrase ... who says scientist can't be poets?

[RightWhale]

That's what I said, although not so directly. The US Space Center siting could have been anywhere, but they put it where there wasn't much going on in relation to the space program; it was an arbitrary decision. NASA has facilities all over the US anyway, but putting JSC where they did was obviously a case of LBJ influence in bringing the pork home. It's hard to fault NASA since they wanted to distribute the economic bennies widely.

[ArrogantBustard]

According to Microsoft Word (spit), muon = moon.


From the fury of the spellcheck, Lord preserve us.

[RightWingAtheist]

The official sig of voices of reason and clairity everywhere:

[XBob]

41 - "That article totally contradicts what you said about the magnets. You said they were obsolete; the article says they were too far beyond the envelope."

The article says it was a giant boondoggle - and I agree. Typical government, makework project. so they wouldn't build your super expensive, out of date toy, which I was supposed to pay for.

Using 75 year old technology, instead of waiting a bit and using 5 year old (at the time) high temperature superconductivity technology:



Introduction to High-Temperature Superconductivity
http://www.uh.edu/research/tcsuh/hts_intro.html


In 1911, Heike Kamerling Onnes discovered superconductivity (the ability of a material to carry electricity with no resistance) in mercury, cooled by expensive and rare liquid helium to below the critical temperature (Tc) of 4.2 K (Kelvin). During the next 75 years, applications were developed, such as powerful magnets built of superconducting materials for medical magnetic resonance imaging (MRI), high energy accelators like the proposed Superconducting Supercollider (SSC), and very senstive magnetic field detectors called Superconducting Quantum Interference Devices (SQUIDs). Because of the expense and inconvenience of liquid helium refrigeration, however, other applications of the phenomenon were not considered economically feasible.

In April 1986, two researchers at IBM in Switzerland, K. Alex Muller and George Bednorz, detected superconductivity in (La-Ba)2CuO4 with a Tc up to 35 K, in contrast to the previous record of 23 K for which they were subsequently awwarded the Nobel Prize. By the end of 1986, superconductivity research achieved revolutionary advances with the effort of Paul C. W. Chu and colleagues at the University of Houston. Signs of superconductivity above 77 K were repeatedly observed in poorly-characterized samples during the period, strongly affirming the belief in the existence of superconductivity in the liquid-nitrogen temperature range. The scientific world knew that the textbooks had to be rewritten after January 1987, when the Houston group in collaboration with M. K. Wu, Chu's former student, achieved stable and reproducible superconductivity above 90 K in Y1Ba2Cu3O7-d (Y123), with Tc close to 100 K. Superconductivity at such high temperatures defies our common understanding of solids.

In addition to the savings in cost resulting from the displacement of liquid helium by liquid nitrogen for cooling, it is now apparent that superconductivity applications with more inexpensive refrigerants -- or eventually no refrigerant at all -- are possible. The race for new superconductors with higher Tc continues. Bismuth and thallium superconducting systems were discovered in 1988 which superconduct at 110 K and 125 K, respectively. The mercury-based compounds were discovered in 1993, with temperatures up to 164 K under pressure, another world record set at Houston. Many laboratories throughout the world have reported glimpses of superconductivity at much higher temperatures but these have not yet been confirmed.

===



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===

Now, a few years later, it is so perfected that they have magnetic levitation railroads using high temperatre superconducting magnet technology, and the Japanese just set a world speed record (383 mph I believe)with theirs.

Now technology has advanced enough that they apparently can use a linear accellerator and eletrons in a much cheaper, and more technologically advanced accellerator.

SERVE NO WINE BEFORE ITS TIME - (except if you you are on a government boondoggle project spending someone else's money).

[RadioAstronomer]

Funny thing, there were several crawlers at Prudhoe Bay while the camp modules were being erected. We estimated that if someone stole one and drove off we could still see him headed down the road the next day. These crawlers weren't as big as the ones at Cape Canaveral, but the modules are only about ten storeys tall, built in Seattle and delivered by barge in summer.

Now that is just too cool. I did not even know they used them up there. :-)

[XBob]

the crawlers are not in very good shape - they are now about 40 years old, and have cacked blocks and pistons, and much deferred maintenance.

I don't know if they still have it, but I worked with the programmers and created a report once, listing all the deferred maintenance and parts status.

They are indeed huge - one link (shoe) in a tread weighs in at 2000 lbs.

here is a true funny story - about 15 years ago, at KSC they decided to clean up and get rid of some un-necessary parts in the warehouse. They had some 'crawler shoes' that had never been used in many years, so they sent them to salvage. Well, the salvage list goes out to other government agencies, so they can have a chance to get/use some of the things before they are sent to junk or auction.

And lo and behold, a place in West Virginia decided to pull them out, and they were shipped to West Virginia, to a government home for unwed mothers, who thought they could use some 'crawler shoes'. True story.

Kennedy Space Center logistics didn't realize what they had done until they got an inquiry from West Virginia, as to what to do with them. So, they decided, as they were no longer manufacturered, anywhere in the world, they should be brought back and put back in the warehouse.

[Physicist]

If High-Tc superconductors are appropriate for accelerator dipoles, why aren't they using them for the dipoles being built for the LHC accelerator at CERN, which is not even due to be operational until late in this decade?

You are speaking out of near-total ignorance.

[RadioAstronomer]

So what was it like??? I bet just one of those steel bars is bigger than you.

No kidding! Those things are HUGE! What an impressive piece of machinery. I have a picture from space of the cape and you can see the crawlers in the photo. :-)

Note of interest, when they converted SLC-6 (slick six) at Vandenberg AFB (VAFB) for shuttles, they did not use crawlers to move the stacked shuttle from the VAB to the pad. Instead, they moved the entire VAFB "VAB" away from the pad on rails. I have been fortunate enough to see both the pads at the cape and SLC-6. There is (was) quite a contrast between the two.

[RadioAstronomer]

I have been on launch failures where years of hard work, and the resulting science goes poof in an instance. It is quite devastating. :-(

However, I cannot even imagine the shock felt thru the scientific community with the cancellation of the SSC, especially after it was so far along towards completion.

I think the ripples from that decision are still being felt in this country today. Are Americans up to the task of truly "big science"? I wonder. Where would this country be if "big science" had been canceled in the past? Would Lewis and Clark been funded? Note; there were congressmen at the time that debated and questioned the funding issue of that exploration as well. Think of the Apollo legacy and the incredible boost to our engineering, miniaturization, and manufacturing capabilities. (I would lay money on the table that the return in taxes and GNP from all of the industries enabled and created thru the technology from the space program has exceeded the cost of same program)

To this day, I wonder what discoveries of the very nature of the universe we live would have been revealed by the SSC. Who knows what may have come from this. IMHO, this is national tragedy that most will never even be aware of or worse even give a damn.

I read many statements like; not with my taxes or it's unconstitutional, etc. Well they are FLAT WRONG! Big science and the resultant discoveries are in the national interest and national defense. Where would we be if Germany or Japan had completed their work on the Atom Bomb before we did back in 1945?

I also read all of the time here on FR, cancel NASA, or make it private. What company in these uncertain times would try to even fund projects of the magnitude of say a program like Cassini? Again, I would put money on the table and say NONE!

Just recently, I read a critique here on FR of just how much the Mars missions cost the taxpayers that are going to land next month. Well here is a contrast: If you only bought just ONE Starbuck latte for every family in America, you would spend more money than the price of these two Mars Landers, their launches, and the cost of operations.

Does anyone really expect the American public to give up his or her latte for ONLY ONE SINGLE day to fund a Mars mission? I sure don't.

Sorry for the rant, but I fear our country is slipping from the forefront if science and exploration and the benefits reaped from such explorations.

[js1138]

Dilbert ran a cartoon a couple of months ago in which his company farmed out tech support to India; India subcontracted it to China; China subcontracted it to Indonesia, and Indonesia subcontracted it back to Dilbert's company because the wages were now lower.

[R. Scott]

Government funding is seldom based on need but on vote buying. Back in the ‘60s people were all fired up with space – the Russians beat us up there. Our fledging aerospace industry had the support of The People, and support meant votes.
Few people realize the possibilities from the collider. Any politician that supported funding might have gained a few thousand votes – while losing tens of thousands of votes.

[RadioAstronomer]

Few people realize the possibilities from the collider. Any politician that supported funding might have gained a few thousand votes – while losing tens of thousands of votes.

Screw the country, just stay in office. Sigh.

[VadeRetro]

Just recently, I read a critique here on FR of just how much the Mars missions cost the taxpayers that are going to land next month.

Personally, I think we should be landing tax collectors on Mars.

Sorry! I agree totally with your rant. :)

[PatrickHenry]

If you only bought just ONE Starbuck latte for every family in America, you would spend more money than the price of these two Mars Landers, their launches, and the cost of operations.

I like the space program (but not every project they have going on), and I agree that national defense is the proper Constitutional justification for such research; however I suggest you reconsider that particular line of argument -- the one I'm quoting in this post. Every left-wing spending program gets "justified" the same way ("We spend more each year on dog food than this little ol' program will cost!"), so it's the kind of argument that will justify literally anything.