How legalizing gay marriage undermines society's morals

The Christian Science Monitor ^ | December 09, 2003 | Alan Charles Raul

[little jeremiah]

Or to be brief, you support oligarchies using the federales to enforce your moral code on every nook and cranny of America.

Say it, brother!

[NutCrackerBoy]

Homosexuals, who are unable to bear children, are allowed to do anything they want, and rightly so. Why do you ask whether they are "allowed" to marry? They can have a ceremony and call it marriage.

The traditional institution of marriage is one man and one woman. The states' current definition of marriage is one man and one woman. The states support traditional marriage to protect the many children that result from sexual coupling. Why should that change?

[little jeremiah]

You denounce laws based on someone else's notions of morality, and support laws based on your notion of morality.

How narrow-minded!

Two of the most intelligent Freepers I've ever read here on this very thread!

[scripter]

You said I was posting propaganda. Prove it. Don't post and run and don't try to denigrate the facts without supporting evidence. It looks like you forgot to answer my question:

Do you deny the health hazards of the homosexual lifestyle?

Well?

[WackyKat]

Do you deny the health hazards of the homosexual lifestyle?

Smoking and eating fatty foods kills a lot more people every year than being gay does.

But I'm sure you're not as hysterical about those unhealthy lifestyles

Why the obsession with homosexuality?

[breakem]

You post information on pedophilia which is incorrect. I explained that earlier and you gave no response.

I explained why you are extreme and unamerican. You didn't answer that.

You introduced a new question and did not answer the earlier questions posited to you.

This is a pattern with you and I won't engage in your avoidance and spin games. You don't establish the upper hand by accusing someone of doing what your doing. Capiche?

[WackyKat]

The traditional institution of marriage is one man and one woman.

Whose "tradition" are you referring to?

[breakem]

plus, I think I said good-bye earlier. I forgot how zealous and unfocused you are. I just want a public acknowledgement of what you are doing here and why I think it's so harmful to people and especially this site. Why I ever engaged you I don't know. Somebody catch me on this.

[NutCrackerBoy]

If the state indeed has an interest in promoting family life, then it should support the extension of marriage to homosexuals in order to stabilize and legalize their relationships.

I don't see how the second follows from the first. The types of families marriage supports are one man, one woman, and children.

Many homosexuals do have children.(as do many unmarried heterosexuals.)

Let me get this straight. The reason the state should extend the protection of marriage to homosexuals is to increase the ratio of nontraditional family structures as compared to traditional family structures?

Number one, that is not moving in a productive direction. Number two, we are discussing only why centuries-old tradition and law should be changed. I need an extremely good reason.

In my experience discussing this issue, anyone who rabidly opposes gay marriage virtually always does so for two reasons 1) unthinking prejudice (I hate homos ) and 2) traditional religious teaching( God hates homos)

Any purported public policy rationales are just a pretext for (1) or (2) or most often (1) and (2)

Actually, I am uninterested in your anecdotal characterizations of who argues what.

[WOSG]

"Smoking and eating fatty foods kills a lot more people every year than being gay does.

But I'm sure you're not as hysterical about those unhealthy lifestyles"

It's all about who is imposing on whom. ... I'd sure be upset if they outlawed 'discrimination' against smokers so i had to pick up the slack on their health insurance.

I find it interesting that we've gone from supporting smokers and repressing homosexuals in 1970 to today doing the opposite.

smokers are treated worse in NYC today than gays were at stonewall.

"Why the obsession with homosexuality?"

Why dont you ask the gay activists that Q?
Our culture is awash in homosexualist ideology - why? it sure isnt the christian right demanding this homosexual agenda attention front and center!

[NutCrackerBoy]

The traditional institution of marriage is one man and one woman. -NutCrackerBoy

Whose "tradition" are you referring to? -WackyKat

Oh, just the cultures dominant in Western nations and Eastern nations. No other ones.

[WOSG]

I can equally cite statistics that show that children do better with any parent than with no parents at all."

go ahead, be my guest.

[Torie]

Ya procreation is important, and I am in favor of the institution of marriage between two adults, one of which is a vital male, and the other a fertile female.

No connection with Israel, except there used to be boatloads of posts that out of the closet gays in the military would cause the institution to go down the drain more or less.

The attenuated connection with Israel however is that perhaps folks just have a certain animus and angst about gays qua gays, that colors their thinking and objectivity. And that is their right. We all have our own aesthetic and moral "prejudices." The trick is to try to keep them house broken, and sufficiently leashed, that they don't become unmanageable, more for one's inner serenity, than anyone else, but also to keep the public square reasonably rational and able to cope with divergent prejudices and aesthetic preferences without excreting an undue amount of toxicity.

[breakem]

I like traditional Israel. The old lady doesn't produce, get another one. Marry 12 year olds. Have the wife and her family walk over to your house for the ceremony. Good stuff.

[scripter]

I get asked that question a lot and I answer it each and every time. Yet the folks who ask that question don't appear interested in my answer.

Are there any organizations similar to GLSEN in our schools telling kids it's okay to eat fatty foods, get fat, or to try smoking? I mean, how do kids know they wouldn't like being obese or having lung cancer if they've never tried it?

Does eating fatty foods and smoking taint the blood supply with a deadly and contagious virus?

Can you name any television shows that encourage eating fatty foods or smoking?

As I see it, a Compassionate Society Should Discourage Deadly Homosexual Behavior.

Why don't you discourage a behavior that results in a deadly and contagious disease?

[WackyKat]

The types of families marriage supports are one man, one woman, and children.

That is what you think should be the case,not historical reality. Polygamy is extremely common in human societies, and de facto polygamy has existed since the beginning of western civilization. That you think the modern "nuclear family" model is the "traditional" family just shows how little you know about how people lived in the past.The modern Western family is the exception to the rule, not the rule.

What I don't understand is, if two gay people want to get married, why does that offend you so much? How is it any skin off your nose?

[WOSG]

"In America today, we have a 50%+ divorce rate, higher for second marriages."

Church-going americans have divorce rates one half that of non church-going americans.

yet you excoriate the religious sentiment as a basis for law.


phooey.

"We abort one million fetuses a year, and are having more children out of wedlock than ever in the history of the nation, an embarrasing number of those from teenagers."

Who is *we*? moral americans, or americans bought into the lie of 'if it feels good, it must be right' morality?

"We swing, we swap, and cheat online until we get around to cheating at the local drive-in by the millions daily."

SPEAK FOR YOURSELF.

What rubbish you promote... we are already immoral, seems your whine, so what is another step down the slide into decadence? Nver mind that every single negative cultural trend you cite was egged on encouraged and solidified in law by the same cultural socialists who are trying to impose their latest social engineering experiment aka gay unions. 'same-sex marriage' is an oxymoron.

What do you have to offer beleagured marriage except another kick in the groin. Are you even married??!??! On what basis do you have to trash it?!?

btw, homosexuals are free to marry members of the opposite sex anytime. so if they really want to get married, they can.

[WackyKat]

Are there any organizations similar to GLSEN in our schools telling kids it's okay to eat fatty foods, get fat, or to try smoking?

Yes. They're called "corporations" They use something called "advertising" and "marketing" which is far more pervasive in our society that homosexual propaganda.

All of which is fine with me; I think people shouold be able to make their own decisions on how they should live. That applies to eating , drinking , smoking and having sex.

For some reason you seem to focus only on sex

[scripter]

Unable to support your claims yet again, you run away. I'd stop posting what you call propaganda if you could actually support your claims. Yet each and every time you refuse! The more I look into the issue of the health hazards of homosexuality the more it supports my position on the matter.

As I linked above, even homosexuals are admitting it now. So why don't you discourage this behavior that results in a deadly contagious disease?

[NutCrackerBoy]

Our neighbors, two women, married by their minister have a child. One of them went to the clinic and contracted with the sperm donor. I guess they produced a child to some extent.

The fact that they were "married" by their minister is irrelevant to the current discussion.

Artificial insemination is not illegal, nor should it be. Unless pressed, I would not express any disapproval to those two folks for their choice to have a child, and I wish them the best.

My sense of social good leads me to believe it is not wrong for society to express disapproval for these arrangements. Of course we should not reject the children! But it is not wrong to express a generally higher appreciation for men and women to be the ones having children, and then in the context of nuclear families.