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Enough With The Neocon And Paleocon Carping—I'll Stand With George W. Bush In 2004
Toogood Reports ^ | Thursday, December 11, 2003; 12:01 a.m. EST | Bernard Chapin

Posted on 12/10/2003 8:59:00 PM PST by BobbyK

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To: BobbyK
Any Conservative that votes for Bush soley to deny a Dim from office is by definition a RINO.
301 posted on 12/12/2003 11:02:53 AM PST by Kay Soze (Conservatives voteing for Bush soley to deny a Dim from office is by definition a RINO.)
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To: BobbyK
Any Conservative that votes for Bush soley to deny a Dim from office is by definition a RINO.
302 posted on 12/12/2003 11:04:49 AM PST by Kay Soze (Conservative voting for Bush soley to deny a Dim from office is by definition a RINO.)
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To: Kay Soze
Any Conservative that votes for Bush solely to deny a Dim from office is by definition a RINO.

May I suggest that there will be plenty (demon-rats)
No not to confuse them with the Reagan democrats, and they will hardly be a RINO, the only conservitive democrat I can think of is Zell Miller, he's already endoresed GW.
We'll need all the help keeping ANY of the nine dimwits running against GW.
I'm no purest, although I am becomeing a one single subject voter,(Border Protection), so you see where I stand, It's just the best we can get get for now.

303 posted on 12/12/2003 9:13:47 PM PST by BobbyK (The Truth Is Out There.)
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To: Kay Soze
So Jim Robinson is a RINO ?

The definition of a RINO, is : Republican in name only. That term has nothing, zip, zero, nada, bupkiss to do with the term Conservative, so stop misusing a term you obviously neither know the meaning of, nor understand in any way, shape, manner, nor form.

304 posted on 12/12/2003 9:16:56 PM PST by nopardons
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To: Smokin' Joe
After all, the media created these labels

Divide and conquer, I couldn't agree with you more.

305 posted on 12/12/2003 9:25:14 PM PST by BobbyK (The Truth Is Out There.)
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To: familyofman
Neo/paleo - whatever, if they support "amnesty" for illegals they don't deserve any conservative votes. Atleast Judas got some silver directly for his actions - what are these fools going to get - votes they think.

I'm quickly becoming a single issue voter,
as bad as I hate abortion, protecting our borders is the suject of my passion this day and time.
Dubya's kiss'n Mexico's behind, knowing good and well OBL's boys, can slip right through.
But for the problems at hand, and they be many, I'll stay with Bush.

306 posted on 12/12/2003 9:39:31 PM PST by BobbyK (The Truth Is Out There.)
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To: nopardons
nopardons, you've held your own well, for this thread!
307 posted on 12/12/2003 9:48:39 PM PST by BobbyK (The Truth Is Out There.)
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To: BobbyK
Thank you ever so much. *blush*
308 posted on 12/12/2003 9:52:32 PM PST by nopardons
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To: nopardons
And, NOT voting to re-elect this President Bush, due to some preposterous one or two issues,shouldn't be on FR at all!

Applause!

309 posted on 12/12/2003 9:52:40 PM PST by ladyinred (If all the world's a stage, I want to operate the trap door!)
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To: ladyinred
Thank you, thank you. :-)
310 posted on 12/12/2003 9:53:48 PM PST by nopardons
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To: John R. (Bob) Locke
When Bush signed this CFR bill into law, he made the statement that many of its provisions were un-Constitutional. And yet, he signed it anyway.

He made no statement that he thought it was unconstitutional. He said some provisions in the Bill were flawed.

He knowingly signed into law a bill that he knew violated the Constitution.

This statement is pure balderdash. The decision came down two days ago, whether it was or was not Constitutional.

I defy you to refute it.

You have been refuted.!

311 posted on 12/12/2003 10:05:33 PM PST by woodyinscc
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To: Howlin
I finally got around to a point by point. Thanks for the opportunity and for pointing out the ones I missed. Regards.


Presidency of George W. Bush --the first 36 months

(Banned Partial Birth Abortion ) – Will probably be overturned by the Supreme Court.

(Killed the Kyoto Global Warming Treaty.) – No, it was killed in the Senate when Clinton was President with a 95-0 vote. Bush just buried it.

(Killed U.S. involvement in the International Criminal Court.) – We never were involved. Another simple burial.

(Killed the U.S. - CCCP ABM Treaty that was preventing the U.S. from deploying our ABM defenses.) – That was a good one and I give him credit.

(Reversed Clinton's move to strike Reagan's anti-abortion Mexico Policy.) – Apples and oranges. It’s just like the NEA saying, “oh no, THAT money doesn’t go for politics”.

(Killed Clinton's CO2 rules that were choking off all of the electricity surplus to California.) – Not fully. And this was one of Clinton’s midnight decisions on the last day of his presidency. Just like the mercury in water E.O., it wasn’t fully reversed.

(Killed Clinton's "ergonomic" rules that OSHA was about to implement; rules that would have shut down every home business in America. ) – Same as above.

(Passed 2 tax cuts----1 of which was the largest Dollar value tax cut in history) – All to be moot in 2011. Am I to believe a “future Congress” or the President sworn in January 2009 will make them permanent? They tried that argument when Bush signed McCain-Feingold.

(Pushed through TWO raises for our military.) – Over and above automatic raises? Good.

(Increased Defense Dept funding which had deteriorated during the previous 8 years) – Sure. AFTER 9/11.

(Signed TWO bills into law that arm our pilots with handguns in the cockpit) – And how many are actually, to this day, armed? TSA is moving like a snail.

(Currently pushing for full immunity from lawsuits for our national gun manufacturers.) – Pushing is not getting or signing.

(Ordered Attorney-General Ashcroft to formally notify the Supreme Court that the OFFICIAL U.S. government position on the 2nd Amendment is that it supports INDIVIDUAL rights to own firearms, NOT a leftist-imagined *collective* right.) – I’ll give him another thumbs up for that. But it’s symbolic more than legal.

(Told the United Nations we weren't interested in their plans for gun control.) – Makes sense, another thumbs up.

(Successfully executed 2 wars: Afghanistan and Iraq. 50 million people who had lived under tyrannical regimes now live in freedom.) – The judgement of success is yet to be fulfilled and both those countries are still mired in muck but I’m optimistic.

(Changed the tone in the White House, restoring HONOR and DIGNITY to the Presidency ) – Yeah, and what good has that done? He’s more hated than Nixon and Reagan while, in my opinion, he looks like a fool sucking up to Ted Kennedy.

(Reorganized bureaucracy...after 9/11, condensed 20+ overlapping agencies and their intelligence sectors into one agency: the Department of Homeland Security.) – Only to spend more unaccountable money on bureaucrats, has done nothing to truly reform those agencies and picked Tom Ridge to become a worthless secretary. We still haven’t stopped the bleeding at our borders.

(Initiated discussion on Social security and individual investment accounts.) – Where’s the bill? Grabbing the third rail was brave. But that’s all we’ve gotten so far – talk.

(Improving govt. efficiency with .8 million jobs put up for bid...weakening unions and cutting undeserved pay raises. Wants merit based promotions/raises only.) – I don’t buy this one and surely don’t see it’s effects.

(Executed a WAR ON TERROR by getting world-wide cooperation to track funds/terrorists (has cut off much of the terrorist's funding and captured or killed many key leaders of the al Qaeda network) ) – World wide? We aren’t getting much cooperation from those that can really do something about those funds and give us better intelligence. But so far, I’ll give him thumbs up.

(Stopped foreign aid that would be used to fund abortions. ) – See my comments on the Mexico Policy above.

(Supported and upheld the ban on abortions at military hospitals ) – Upheld, which means it wasn’t changed before.

(Signed E.O. reversing Clinton policy of not requiring parental consent under the Medical Privacy Act) – But in many states, underage women can still get abortions without parental notification.

(Orchestrated Republican control of the White House, the House AND the Senate.) – The Republicans had control of the House and Senate BEFORE he became president.

(Killed the liberal ABA's role in vetting federal judges for Congress.) – Really? Have you read those Democrat memos? They are still having their strings pulled by the left and he’s losing on his Circuit Court judges with filibusters.

(GWB signed an executive order enforcing the Supreme Court's Beck decision (re: union dues being used for political campaigns against individual's wishes) ) – His father did this and Clinton didn’t reverse it, he just wouldn’t enforce it. Are union members getting their money back yet? No. Are the posters explaining their rights back up in the factories? I doubt.

(Brought back our EP-3 intel plane and crew from China without any bribes or bloodshed) – He let China save face and send the plane back in pieces in crates.

(Started withdrawing our troops from Bosnia and has announced withdrawal of our troops from Germany and the Korean DMZ.) – Huh? What withdrawls? I haven’t seen any troops leaving Germany and we just moved those in South Korea from the DMZ to a few more miles south. What about all those soldiers still in Haiti, Kosovo, Okinawa, etc?

(Signed the LARGEST nuclear arms reduction in world history with Russia ) – I’d think Reagan’s was larger. I hope we are verifying this reduction.

(Initiated comprehensive review of our military, which was completed just prior to 9/11/01, accurately reported that ASYMMETRICAL WARFARE was critical. ) – I’ll give him that. He’s let his people at the Pentagon do their jobs.

(Has CONSTRUCTION in process on the first ten ABM silos in Alaska, so that America will have a defense against North Korean nukes ) – Started already under Clinton, but I like it! I can’t wait for these to be operational.

(Turning around an inherited economy in recession.) – Tax cuts will do that. But this spending has got to stop or the added revenue with lower tax rates won’t keep up. And again, they expire in 2011 and business will again slow down if they think they won’t be maid permanent.

(Passed tough new laws to hold corporate criminals to account as a result of corporate scandals.) – Didn’t need “new laws”. Should have just enforced the ones on the books. But it’s typical for government to just make new law all the time, it give the illusion of “doing something”. And why isn’t the SEC and IRS reformed to the point they don’t require corporations to treat costs one way on SEC forms and another on IRS forms? This is a big part of the problem of what looks bad.

(Reduced taxes on dividends and capital gains) – You said that already.

(In process of eliminating IRS marriage penalty. ) – But it never goes away, does it? And again, moot in 2011.

(Increased small business incentives to expand and to hire new people) – Too vague to comment on.

(Signed into law the No Child Left Behind legislation delivering the most dramatic education reforms in a generation (challenging the soft bigotry of low expectations) ) – Window dressing mostly. The NEA now just cheats on the testing and raises grades to comply. Should have forced the vouchers into the program, but he caved to Kennedy.

(Reorganized the INS in an attempt to safeguard the borders and ports of America and to eliminate bureaucratic redundancies and lack of accountability.) – You brought that up already with the Homeland Security Dept. above (which he opposed at first).

(Signed trade promotion authority) – Clinton wanted it, the GOP just wouldn’t give it to him. Not much good when he imposes and then removes steel tariffs.

(Committed US funds to purchase medicine for millions of men and women and children now suffering with AIDS in Africa) – Another thumbs up. He put up while the liberals just talked.

(Urging Medicare Reform) – Caved in the drug bill on real reforms. Urging and doing is two separate things.

(Urging federal liability reform to eliminate frivolous lawsuits) – See above.

(Supports class action reform bill which limits lawyer fees so that more settlement money goes to victims ) – Then have Congress craft a bill and pass it.

(Submitted comprehensive energy plan--awaits Congressional action (works to develop cleaner technology, produce more natural gas here at home, make America less dependent on foreign sources of energy, improve national grid, etc.) ) – You mean that horribly bloated and pork filled bill that even the GOP couldn’t finally support? And, as usual, caved to the left on ANWR and loses the PR battle. The enviro-wackos are going to hate him even if he did 100% of what they want, so why bother playing footsy?

(Endorses and promotes The Responsibility Era ("In a compassionate society, people respect one another and take responsibility for the decisions they make in life. My hope is to change the culture from one that has said, if it feels good, do it; if you've got a problem, blame somebody else -- to one in which every single American understands that he or she are responsible for the decisions that you make; you're responsible for loving your children with all your heart and all your soul; you're responsible for being involved with the quality of the education of your children; you're responsible for making sure the community in which you live is safe; you're responsible for loving your neighbor, just like you would like to be loved yourself. " -----this quote was too good to leave out) ) – Total fluff any president would say. But at least he said it.

(Started the USA Freedom Corps) – Can you say Americorp? A worthless organization that spends more of fancy office space and paying “volunteers”.

(Pushing for privatization of Medicare and CHOICES based on current Federal Employee Health benefits program.) – Caved in the drug bill. See above.

(Initiated review of all federal agencies with a goal to eliminate federal jobs (completed September 2003) in an effort to reduce the size of federal gov while increasing private sector jobs. ) – Sounds like “reinventing government” which is more window dressing while he let’s Congress fill up these agencies with more money and pork they wont’ control.

(Part of coalition (Russia, Israel, Palestine, USA) for Israeli/Palestinian "Roadmap to Peace" ) – No comment other than we know the “roadmap” is as dead as Oslo and everything before it. At least he won’t pretend Yassir That’s My Baby Arafat is someone to be bargained with.

(Challenged the United Nations to live up to their responsibilities and not become The League of Nations ( in other words, completely irrelevant) ) – Great. It’s like warning your kid to stop picking his nose. I say put some teeth in that challenge and threaten to pull out of the UN or kick them our of New York.

(Nominated strong, conservative judges to the judiciary.) – Who are sitting on their thumbs waiting…waiting…and waiting. He needs to use the bully pulpit more. Give an Oval Office address or something.

(Changed parts of the Forestry Management Act to allow necessary clean-up of the national forests in order to reduce fire danger) – Only after it was good PR after California burned. He wasn’t pushing it before that and didn’t even move when Tom Daschle sneaked in an exemption for South Dakota! He should have called Daschle on that as a hypocrite and demand action. But better late than never.

(As part of the national forests clean-up, the President restricted judicial challenges (based on the Endangered Species Act and other challenges) and removed the need for an EIS (Environmental Impact Statement) before removing fuels/logging to reduce fire danger.) – See above.

(Significantly eased field-testing controls of genetically engineered crops.) – Good. But hardly something to run TV ads over!

And now the Supreme Court upheld McCain-Feingold that Bush signed while all the old “conventional wisdom”said not to worry, they won’t. Just like we are supposed to believe the tax rate cuts will stay in effect after 2011.

And I do like him telling France, Russia and in some part Germany to take a hike when it comes to OUR $18.6 billion.

And I’ll give you one more great thing he’s done – totally tick off the left to the point they are going nuts and acting like rabid dogs that will be heavily rejected by average Americans!
312 posted on 12/13/2003 12:32:06 AM PST by Fledermaus (Fascists, Totalitarians, Baathists, Communists, Socialists, Democrats - what's the difference?)
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To: BobbyK
If Dean or Kerry get elected it will be GWB's fault. HE abandoned me, not the other way around. You know what? Perhaps it would be better if they did win...the Republicans might discover they're Conservatives after all. Don't forget that Clinton was to the right of GWB. That's right...look at the record if you don't believe me.
313 posted on 12/13/2003 9:56:08 PM PST by ETERNAL WARMING
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To: FairOpinion
Actually I prefer none of the above.
314 posted on 12/13/2003 10:00:57 PM PST by ETERNAL WARMING
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To: FairOpinion

NO, It's called "cutting off your nose to spite your face".


I cut off my nose to spite my face when I voted straight Republican last time. Look at what I got for it....a pseudo Conservative who signs anything that crosses his desk and an obvious lover of the Democratic agenda.
315 posted on 12/13/2003 10:05:38 PM PST by ETERNAL WARMING
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To: ETERNAL WARMING; FairOpinion
If Dean or Kerry get elected it will be GWB's fault. HE abandoned me, not the other way around. You know what? Perhaps it would be better if they did win...the Republicans might discover they're Conservatives after all. Don't forget that Clinton was to the right of GWB. That's right...look at the record if you don't believe me.

Have you become so consumed in your own denials you believe this , or is this just for the shock value ? Clinton only did the "right" thing when forced to do so.9/11(remember that? ) is a direct result of right winger Clinton's vigilance.

You know what? Don't vote for GWB, stay home, open your veins and do conservatism a favor.You sure as hell are not with your adolescent carping now. You want a perfect utopia? Go join your soulmates at DU.I'm sure you can all enjoy bashing the President between hots on your bong.

316 posted on 12/13/2003 10:09:26 PM PST by gatorbait (Yesterday, today and tomorrow......The United States Army)
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To: nopardons
Better a RINO than a Conservative in name only!
317 posted on 12/14/2003 10:55:30 PM PST by Kay Soze (Conservative voting for Bush soley to deny a Dim from office is by definition RINO. I am now a RINO)
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To: Kay Soze
There are MANY, here, who are CINOS; especially those who do not understand, at all, what a Conservative actually is and can't tell the difference between a Conservative and a fringer. :-)
318 posted on 12/14/2003 11:12:26 PM PST by nopardons
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To: nopardons
“A government that is big enough to give you all you want is big enough to take it all away.”- Barry Goldwater

“I have little interest in streamlining government or in making it more efficient, for I mean to reduce its size. I do not undertake to promote welfare, for I propose to extend freedom. My aim is not to pass laws, but to repeal them. It is not to inaugurate new programs, but to cancel old ones that do violence to the Constitution, or that have failed in their purpose, or that impose on the people an unwarranted financial burden. I will not attempt to discover whether legislation is 'needed' before I have first determined whether it is constitutionally permissible. And if I should later be attacked for neglecting my constituents' interests, I shall reply that I was informed their main interest is liberty and that in that cause I am doing the very best I can.”-
Barry Goldwater from The Conscience of a Conservative

My 1964 remco Barry Goldwater doll weeps for the republican party.

Tell me what is conservatisim?

What is a RINO?

319 posted on 12/14/2003 11:37:10 PM PST by Kay Soze (Conservative voting for Bush soley to deny a Dim from office is by definition RINO. I am now a RINO)
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To: Fledermaus
"First, the right of the political spectrum understand tax policy when it comes to tax rates. You do not.

If you think GOP and conservative are mutually exclusive, you've made a mistake."

I do not think that the Republican party and conservatism are mutually exclusive.

Only Nonpardons with his RINO definition has indicated any belief that they are mutually exclussive. Post 304

With Reagan they overlapped quite a bit.

With "W" much much much much less so.

Between the two parties it represents conservative interest more.

But it is NOT a conservative party.

It’s not a conservative position to make government larger.

Nor to make it more powerful.

Nor to increase socialist programs.

320 posted on 12/14/2003 11:57:20 PM PST by Kay Soze (Conservative voting for Bush soley to deny a Dim from office is by definition RINO. I am now a RINO)
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To: Fledermaus
"You obviously do not understand, in anyway shape or form, the concept of tax rates on the taxable base. "

"According to the static thinkers like you, Wal-Mart should be bankrupt because for decades they've "rolled back prices". Are your children going to have to "pay for it" in higher toilet paper prices when they turn 25 because Wal-Mart sells you some Charmin 20% lower than last year?"

So ADDING soical programs and INCREASING the size of government are OK?

Is this your Republican/conservative view?

321 posted on 12/15/2003 12:03:10 AM PST by Kay Soze (Conservative voting for Bush soley to deny a Dim from office is by definition RINO. I am now a RINO)
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To: Kay Soze
What does adding social programs or increasing the size of government (both of which I do not support) have anything to do with the fact that YOU subscribe to the "tax cuts cause less revenue" lie pedalled by the left?
322 posted on 12/15/2003 10:56:33 PM PST by Fledermaus (Fascists, Totalitarians, Baathists, Communists, Socialists, Democrats - what's the difference?)
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To: gatorbait
Phfffft! You're a silly boy and I do mean boy.
323 posted on 12/16/2003 12:27:31 AM PST by ETERNAL WARMING
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To: ETERNAL WARMING
Phfffft! You're a silly boy and I do mean boy.



And you're a total waste of oxygen.By the way, how's your bed mate,Michael Jackson?
324 posted on 12/16/2003 4:51:55 AM PST by gatorbait (Yesterday, today and tomorrow......The United States Army)
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