Ex-Navy pilot loses libel suit, again

Washington Times ^ | 12/13/03 | Rowan Scarborough

[Pukin Dog]

Corrected.

[HighWheeler]

It says she was at mil power? I thought she was still just accelling into mil. I also heard that her approach was waved off, and she tried to clear the deck. The plane took a hard roll and the GIB seemed to have had his hands on the ready for ejection, he left the plane quicker than anyone had expected while viewing the tape. In fact, the team even noted how fast the GIB ejected, and commented that he already had the idea she was substandard. Had he waited only a second longer, he would likely have been killed.

Does the report estimate the roll rate, the ejection delay times, and the angles of ejections?

[HighWheeler]

Thanks, I'm reading it.

[gatorbait]

Sounds like Revlon died for Patty Schroeder's sins. Almost took her backseater with her,too.
Had an arguement with some fool about women aviators (his daughter was going to the fleet as one) Dropped it when his responses got shrill and denial and persnoal attack became his standard.

I'd heard this ,, nice to see it in writing.

End sum..She was in no way qualified to be there and the Navy sucked it up for her.Just like the Army did for Jessica Lynch and Rhonda Cornum.

[gatorbait]

persnoal =personal in typonese

[cynicom]

Chief Charles Moose is a major in the military reserve, enough said.

[Taxman]

Thanks for the ping, SC Swamp Fox.

I am delighted that the suit against Elaine Donnelly was dismissed and then that dismissal was upheld.

Clearly, Lt. Lohrenz had no business flying F-14s.

And even more clearly, the Navy Brass that saluted the Feminist Flag were not serving their country well by allowing her (and many other marginally qualified women) to become star examples of the Peter Principle and Survival of the Fittest failures.

Ms. Donnelly is my heroine -- she took up the cudgel against the Feminazis long ago, and has persisted in spite of the many vile attacks against her by the likes of Patsy Schroeder and her Feminist Bitch Klaven.

"Equal Opportunity" is a myth. The Hultgren/Lohrenz saga, and all of the other "Women can be as good as men" military/civilian experiments prove it beyond the shadow of any doubt.

"Equal Opportunity" (in respect of female military persons) lowers training standards and thereby dramatically reduces the military's ability to perform its mission and makes it more dangerous for all military personnel, male and female.

In an increasingly dangerous world "Equal Opportunity," by degrading military capabilities, increases the danger to American civilians, as well.

But you will not hear any of the Chairborne Brigade REMFs say that. They are too busy a$$-kissing, politicking and plotting and scheming to obtain their next promotion. Promotions count, you see. All the rest is Bullsh!t.

You gotta get down and dirty in the trenches -- talk to the troops -- to get the real scoop.

[OldFriend]

LOL......now you've ruined my day!!!!

[OldFriend]

Could not agree with you more. Had a son in the Army when my daughter was being recruited.

No way on earth could she have met the physical standards he met.

[OldFriend]

You said what had to be said. Don't apologyze.

[Lancey Howard]

An 'excellence in posting' bump.

[Pukin Dog]

Schroder gets some of the blame, but I blame the pilots more than the politicians. Kara and Carey should have used their own judgment to realize that they were not up to snuff. Many men quit when they know they cant stay safe. Even Donnie Cochran quit while commanding the Blue Angels because he knew his performance was putting other lives at risk. The man took himself out of THE DREAM JOB, because his flying skills were going away. That is what you expect of a Naval Aviator. It is not okay to just go out and kill yourself, there are other lives in the balance.

Those two were drunk with their notoriety, constant press interviews, and status as feminist heroes for taming the mighty Tomcat. It was a lie. Both had some good days as Tomcat drivers, but you need to have ALL good days, and that was not true in their cases.

[USNBandit]

I believe what happened with the Hultgreen mishap was that she reached a high alpha state where you get lateral control reversal. For those unfamiliar with the F-14, is does not have ailerons. lateral control is made with a combination of differential tail and spoilers. At high angles of attack lateral stick inputs will produce the opposite effect. What is that? 24 or 26 units AOA? She got the aircraft really slow and instead of putting in right rudder to counteract the left roll, she puts in a bunch of right stick. I'm fairly certain that if she had followed the single engine on takeoff procedures she would still be alive. Set 10 degrees nose up not to exceed 14 units AOA, rudder opposite roll/yaw supplemented by stick. The plane probably would have hit the water, but when the LSOs called for ejection and the RIO initiated ejection the aircraft would have been upright. I've had the unfortunate experience of flying away from the boat on one engine. You don't need to rush to put control inputs in as long as you keep the AOA under control the F-14 flies fine. It flies sideways, but it is still flying.

Here is my dump on Carey Denai. One thing that has not been brought up is how she ended up in Tomcats in the first place. Her training command A-4 skipper, "Sneakers" Nesby was bound and determined to send her to Tomcats. He personally took her out for her instrument check ride, one of the bigger hurdles in advanced training. While the student pilot is supposed to fly from the back seat under an instrument hood, Sneakers had her fly from the front seat. Do you think she passed? Of course she did. During the advanced training she was once selected as the student of the month. How could that be if she was such a bad pilot? Well, most of her flights that month were during a couple road trips she made with a marine corps instructor, Capt. Lorehnz. Boy, that name sounds familiar. Hey, that's the guy she married. Do you think that might have helped her grades out?

This whole episode was a black eye to Naval Aviation. You have one dead aviator with people releasing privileged information about her mishap. You have another that should have never made it through the FRS who has spent the last seven years in court. The sad thing is that the dead one is probably the better of the two.

[USNBandit]

You think Big Time quit all on his own? That's not what I heard.

[Pukin Dog]

I never said ALL on his own. He got feedback on his performance in time to avert what happened to the Thunderbird T-38 foursome years ago. He had help, but he took the honorable way out instead of making it a nasty affair. It could have been quite ugly due to his race, had he resisted the inevitable.

[Pukin Dog]

What is that? 24 or 26 units AOA? She got the aircraft really slow and instead of putting in right rudder to counteract the left roll, she puts in a bunch of right stick. I'm fairly certain that if she had followed the single engine on takeoff procedures she would still be alive. Set 10 degrees nose up not to exceed 14 units AOA, rudder opposite roll/yaw supplemented by stick. The plane probably would have hit the water, but when the LSOs called for ejection and the RIO initiated ejection the aircraft would have been upright.

Stacy Bates told me that speed was not her problem until she grabbed all that alpha without powering up; but that she had a habit of trying to fix her line up by skidding. She was always overshooting her approach, then kicking rudder to get back. She blanked the airflow to the port engine by getting too far sideways, and you know the rest. When the power call came, she was at 18 units and growing, and it was a right kick that rolled her left, and THEN she tried to go right stick to correct but by then the RIO was half outside the airframe. What she needed to do when the power call came, was drop her nose and zone 5 off the water holding 8 units max with a roostertail until 170kts or get out. She knew her wings were gone before she died, it was the ugliest pass Stacy ever saw.

I take issue with a sideways Tomcat outside zone5. You will CS in a heartbeat. I trust you had quite a plume behind you climbing out? Either that or you were in a B/D?

[Pukin Dog]

Oh, and you are correct, of the two, Kara was the better pilot. She was very good in the A-6 before coming over to the Miramar RAG.

[gatorbait]

Those two were drunk with their notoriety, constant press interviews, and status as feminist heroes for taming the mighty Tomcat. It was a lie. Both had some good days as Tomcat drivers, but you need to have ALL good days, and that was not true in their cases.


That says it all;they fell in love with their manufactured personas.