Uncle Tom's Cabin

Lew Rockwell ^ | 12/16/03 | Gail Jarvis

[mac_truck]

Now I know you yankees and yankee sympathizers like to believe that your little yankee mecca of New York City is the center of the universe. The cold harsh reality is that it isn't anywhere close. New York City is a cold, dreary urine soaked crime infested urban wasteland on the northeast extremity of the United States. Politically, morally, socially, and culturally it is about as far away from the true American heartland as one can physically get in this country short of leaving its borders entirely.

He sure sounds like a "big dumb cracker" to me.

[Non-Sequitur]

You attempt to make it sound like Jackson was unique and some sort of anti-slavery activist because he taught a Sunday school for free blacks and slaves, some of which were his own. Nothing could be farther from the truth. Jackson was no different than tens of thousands of other slave owners who saw to it that their chattel were taught the Bible and were exposed to the teachings of Jesus Christ. The slave narratives are full of such accounts. Rather than being rebels, Jackson and the others merely belonged to churches throughout the south sponsored such schools. There is nothing special or out of the ordinary in what Jackson did. He was not anti-slavery in any way, regardless of what "Gods and Generals" would have us believe.

[4CJ]

He sure sounds like a "big dumb cracker" to me.

I've got a neighbor that is from New York state, who is the first to admit that they would never live in NYC. He considers himself a yankee through and through, and also call NYC the "cesspool" of the nation. I wouldn't call him a "big dumb cracker".

[4CJ]

You attempt to make it sound like Jackson was unique and some sort of anti-slavery activist because he taught a Sunday school for free blacks and slaves, some of which were his own.

No, I pointed out that Jackson started the school. A school that had previously been attempted failed. And Jackson was not unique in this regard, nor have I ever claimed he was.

In my 493, I wrote, 'Stonewall gave them a gift far better than a toy, he shared the Gospel of our Lord and Saviour with them. He organized a Sunday School class for them (and other slaves) in 1855 at the Lexington Presbyterian Church where he served as deacon. Up to 100 slaves attended services. Jackson gave them books and Bibles as a reward for their efforts.'

To which you replied in 494, 'Partly correct. Jackson taught the Sunday school it is true. But the school was sponsored by the Presbyterian church and had been in place before Jackson began teaching it, and continued after he left. The school was open to free blacks as well as slaves. Such schools were common throughout the south where the churches and slave-owners both considered it their Christian duty to bring the gospel of Jesus Christ to their heathen chattel. Jackson did not give them books or Bibles since reading was not taught in the class.'

To which I posted references from those that knew Jackson well refuting the assertion that the school 'been in place before Jackson began teaching it', and that 'Jackson did not give them books or Bibles'. The remaining points of your posts were correct.

[Non-Sequitur]

On the other hand, the description "a cold, dreary urine soaked crime infested urban wasteland" could just as easily be applied to any men's room at Hartsfield Airport or DFW.

[4CJ]

Most of us consider Georgia to be everthing but Atlanta.

[mac_truck]

Most folks from the rest of New York state resent the power and influence of New York City. Its a classic upstate/downstate political dynamic that's been in place for at least the past 100 years.

All your neighbor has confirmed is that New York City isn't really considered the center of the universe by all yankees and yankee sympathizers , as was asserted earlier.

[mac_truck]

From the Christian Science Monitor January 2, 2004

In some cities, like New York, constant police vigilance in high-crime areas has caused the rates of urban violence to continue to plummet to levels not seen since 1968, making the Big Apple the safest big city in the country for the second year in a row. But in other urban areas, murder and mayhem are definitely on the rise. Dallas, for instance, saw a 51 percent hike in overall crime, as scandal rocked the local police department and increased drug trafficking got a tighter grip on struggling neighborhoods...

New York City probably has the most remarkable crime story in the country right now. It's managed to lower crime another 5.5 percent in 2003, even with fewer resources during a fiscal crisis.

Far from being a crime ridden cesspool, it sems NYC is setting an example for the rest of the country. Big dumb crackers take note.

[4CJ]

Far from being a crime ridden cesspool, it sems NYC is setting an example for the rest of the country. Big dumb crackers take note.

Nationally, the violent crime rate decreased 3.1% according to the 2003 Preliminary (January - June) FBI UCR report. New York's violent crime rate decreased 3.3% (27,667 in 2003 vs. 28,622 in 2002), yet Atlanta's rate was down 14.04% (4,179 in 2003 vs. 4,862 in 2002).

I guess the big dumb crackers could teach New Yorkers a thing or two.

[mac_truck]

Most of us consider Georgia to be everthing but Atlanta.

I guess you were just kidding then, when you said this.

[4CJ]

I guess you were just kidding then, when you said this.

No. It was simply a comparision of Geogia's largest city to that of New York's.

[mac_truck]

A few posts ago you were claiming that most southerners did not consider Atlanta to be part of the south. Now you want to take credit for Atlanta's improving crime rate. Is that it?.

While I am glad to hear that the crime rate there is improving, you have not demonstrated any lesson that New Yorkers could possibly learn from you, beyond how to deseminate like a Clintonista.

[4CJ]

A few posts ago you were claiming that most southerners did not consider Atlanta to be part of the south. Now you want to take credit for Atlanta's improving crime rate. Is that it?.

Nope. The folks I know in Georgia, from various parts of the state, do not consider Atlanta to be Southern. It's Atlanta and the rest of the state. Right or wrong, that's the mentality.

Secondly, no one is laying claim to Atlanta's "improving" crime rate - simply an observation about how statistics can make things sound wonderful. Take two cities, one with an increase in the murder rate of 100%, another with a decrease of 5%. Which is safer? If the first had only 1 muder in year 1, and 2 in the second, the rate did increase 100%. In the second city, if it had 1000 in year one, and 995 in year two, the rate did decrease 5%.

The question is, in which city would you feel that your family is safer?

[nolu chan]

Large cities are not typical of the heartland. Large cities in any state (or country) tend to vary greatly from the rural areas. While the large cities largely influence the perceived image, those in a state may view the same place differently. There can even be in-city vanity. Within Manhattan, it will exist from East side to West side. A careful listen to Rod Stewart singing Downtown Train will reveal the Manhattanite putting down "them Brooklyn girls."

The downtown trains are full
full of all them Brooklyn girls
They try so hard to break out of their little worlds
You wave your hand and they scatter like crows

New York state has one of the nation's largest agricultural industries. Politically, socially and culturally, NYC is foreign to the rest of NY state (except for some surrounding areas), just as it is foreign to the rest of the USA. NYC tends to be big, brash, vocal and in-your-face about it.

One could easily perceive San Francisco (never been there) as politically, socially and culturally foreign as well. Some perceive all of California as almost a foreign country.

NYC does, indeed, have some urine-soaked areas. For various and sundry reasons, there has always been an ample supply of street people. Considering population density, with more people per square mile than elsewhere, Manhattan probably has more street people per square mile. Some problems are magnified. Public toilet facilities are lacking. Even when you are homeless, if ya gotta go, ya gotta go. Congregating by gays and drug dealers led to closures of public facilities.

Parts of the South Bronx did resemble a bombed out urban wasteland some time back. I do not believe it is as bad as it was. In the Navy, Norfolk, Virginia was universally known as S--- City. The last time I saw downtown Norfolk it looked almost like a bombed out wasteland.

Regarding culture, as a big melting pot, American culture is a bit difficult to define. To a European, American culture is probably typified by McDonald's and an attitude. Notable is that attitude, "Why don't they speak English?"

To some extent, NYC is to the rest of the US as France is to the rest of the world. NYC is the Big Apple, the greatest city in the world. All you need do is ask a few city-dwellers. They are not generally bashful about telling you so.

I can hardly consider NYC to be an urban wasteland. I believe Manhattan has the most expensive real estate in the US. The cost of living is very high.

I do not consider NYC to be in the northeast extremity of the US. All of New England lies north and east. Geographically, it is not all that far from Virginia.

While some of the criticisms of NYC are reasonably accurate, I see few valid conclusions to be drawn. Native New Yorkers may well heap the same criticisms on NYC, and add a few. For example, one might criticize it by observing that giant sucking sound of NYC as it reaches into pockets around the state vacuuming out money. A rural hick likely would not appreciate going out his door and seeing someone sleeping on the sidewalk as much as going out his door and having a few deer look up and say "hi." But heck, y'all can judge for yourself.

Inner city bliss:

My current rural view:

[4CJ]

Politically, socially and culturally, NYC is foreign to the rest of NY state (except for some surrounding areas), just as it is foreign to the rest of the USA.

And Atlanta. It is nothing like the rest of the state.

Albino deer? We might see a piebald one every few years, but not pure albino. We've had 4 or 5 deer killed on the road behind our house this year. The only things you see dead on the highway in Atlanta are cars.

[nolu chan]

And Atlanta. It is nothing like the rest of the state.

And, of course, Newfoundland is different from the rest of Canada. If it is 2 p.m. in New York, what time is it in Newfoundland? You might guess all day without guessing the correct answer. Would you believe 3:30 p.m.? (Really!)

Newfy Standard Time

[4CJ]

You might guess all day without guessing the correct answer.

That is too weird.