God in Our Heritage (Why the Pledge of Allegiance is constitutional)

The Wall Street Journal ^ | Thursday, December 18, 2003 | GREG ABBOTT

[presidio9]

Half a century after Congress added the words "under God" to the Pledge of Allegiance, the Supreme Court is poised to consider whether those words make it impermissible for children to recite the Pledge in our nation's public schools. Michael Newdow, the man at the center of the case now before the court, contends that requiring students to say the words "under God" unconstitutionally establishes religion. An overwhelming majority of others, including the attorneys-general of all 50 states, strongly disagree.

[exmarine]

Atheism is not a world view. It is merely a disbelief in deities. World view is another matter, entirely, as is evidenced by Christians who are monarchists. Religion does not dictate world view or political position.

It's a worldview. Look, EVERY SINGLE HUMAN BEING has a worldview - a way of looking at the world, or a philosophy of life. No exceptions. Atheism is much more than a lack of belief in deities - it is anti-theism. I have debated many atheists and have had many who were arguing against the truth of Chrsitianity try to give me the same line you gave me - that atheism is merely a lack of belief. My answer to them was and is: The fact that you are arguing against theism is PROOF POSITIVE that it is not a lack of belief, it is a decidedly anti-theistic belief system -at least this is true of all atheists who argue against Christianity. Look at the atheists who ruled countries and what happened - Russia, China, N. Korea, Cuba...their politics matched their atheistic belief system. Atheism is part and parcel of marxism - a political system. Please spare me any further argument in this area as history and logic both refute you.

[MineralMan]

"Oh, yes I can. If I were a betting man, I would bet a year's wages that at least 90% of all atheists are liberal democrats or green party, but 10% or less are republican or conservative libertarian. "

Funny. Based on that, 50% or so of Christians must be Democrats too, since the vote was pretty equally divided in the 2000 election, and since 81% of the population claims Christianity.

One cannot judge anyone's worldview based on their stated religious beliefs. It is impossible.

What do you suppose I am politically, given that I am an atheist? What do you suppose my worldview consists of?

[MineralMan]

"Atheism is much more than a lack of belief in deities - it is anti-theism. I have debated many atheists and have had many who were arguing against the truth of Chrsitianity try to give me the same line you gave me - that atheism is merely a lack of belief. My answer to them was and is: The fact that you are arguing against theism is PROOF POSITIVE that it is not a lack of belief, it is a decidedly anti-theistic belief system"

I am finished with this thread. As Jesus said, in Matthew 6, verse 34, I believe, "sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof."

I will now move on to other issues.

[exmarine]

Christians, too, may be monarchists or communists, Republicans or Democrats. Their religious beliefs have nothing to do with political beliefs.

This assertion is laughable. How many examples do you need that prove a connection between religious beliefs and political beliefs? I have already named several. Our Constitution - a political document to be sure - is the result of the judeo-Christian worldview. You can't separate politics from religion because people will inevitably act according to their religious beliefs. You simply have no understanding of religion at all.

[xzins]

I pledge allegiance

....a. to the flag OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA

AND
....b. to the Republic for which it stands,
.......1. one nation,
.......2. under God,
.......3. indivible,
.......4. with liberty and justice for all.

There is really only one pledge. That pledge is to the Republic of the United States of America. This is because the pledge itself says that the flag is a symbol of the above. When you put your hand over your heart you are FACING the flag giving the appearance of pledging to it, but you are actually pledging to the Republic "for which it stands."

1. The Republic is not 2 nations, 3 nations, 17 nations, or X nations. It is one nation.

2. Under God: A recent article pointed out that this actually comes from George Washington, and it comes from the time of Valley Forge when he felt that God's hand truly must be in the work of forging a new nation BECAUSE they endured and triumphed over so much. Therefore, it is synonymous with: "Blessed by God."

3. Indivisible: They fought the Civil War to make that point.

4. With liberty and justice for all. That is the hope and the dream expressed. Even when not factually true at given points in time, it was still the hope.

[exmarine]

I am finished with this thread. As Jesus said, in Matthew 6, verse 34, I believe, "sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof."

Yeah, that would be a wise move considering you cannot support your position.

[LiteKeeper]

comment later

[Devil_Anse]

True. Before even considering the way the pledge is said in the government propaganda centers, we must a priori remember that there should be no government schools.

That said, I assure you that the schools are only poor propaganda centers. The government never COULD do an A-1 job at much of anything, could it? The great majority of persons whom I know with public school diplomas are unaffected by the propaganda. One's family, if involved, is a much greater source of one's general viewpoint. I know that is the case with me. I went to Catholic schools, and while I appreciate the education I got, I am by no means of one mind with the Catholic Church on, say, the death penalty.

[Devil_Anse]

Your post makes perfect sense to me.

The "fight", as presented by Newdow, is IMO the strange and mentally twisted "word salad" of a person who, if he is not psychotic at times, is certainly teetering on the brink.

One thing, though: My dear, KINDLY try to remember that our federal legislators are NOT bound by the laws which bind ordinary American mortals such as you and me! They are, after all, our landowners and nobility! It is their right to be unfettered by laws which are made for ordinary men!

[Gargantua]

" This applies to all oaths of office and other oaths taken in the United States of America. "

Right. Including the Pledge of Allegiance.

Any pupil whose faith or lack thereof requires them not to say those two words... "under God"... can simply omit them from their morning pledge. Nobody would even know they had done so in a classroom full of 30-50 kids.

That's just more proof that this entire red-herring issue is merely an assault on Christianity by the Liberal Left and their dim, unwitting water carriers of other political persuasions.

;-/

[Kryptonite]

I enjoyed your beatdown. Good work!