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To: exmarine
"I needn't have a deity to honor my oaths.
True, you don't. However, without a deity, there can be no right and wrong outside of yourself. That makes you a moral relativist."

Untrue. Morality is equally a philosophical construct. One can justify immorality, even with a deity as the moral source. Certainly we have seen that often enough. One may also have a very strong moral code without any deity involved.

My own moral code is based on a lifetime study of social and religious moral laws. Where all societies and religions share common moral laws, I find the center of my own moral code.

The basis of that code is the Golden Rule, a concept that has been expressed in every religion (many predating even Judaism) and social rule set. It is the only code needed.

I hold this code as strongly as you say you hold your allegiance to the rule set of your deity. I will fight to uphold it, to the death.

Your religious beliefs have no stronger bond for you than that held by me for that moral code.

You're free to think whatever you wish about my morality. However, if I give you my word on something, I promise you that I will keep it.
44 posted on 12/18/2003 9:53:25 AM PST by MineralMan (godless atheist)
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To: MineralMan
Untrue. Morality is equally a philosophical construct. One can justify immorality, even with a deity as the moral source. Certainly we have seen that often enough. One may also have a very strong moral code without any deity involved.

If God exists, then morality is much more than a philosophical construct, it is a system of universal rights and wrongs that come from the Creator Himself. If God is the moral author, then murder is wrong even if every human on earth says it isn't. Absolute moral principles from God exist independent and irregardless of human belief. On the other hand, moral relativism comes from man, and under such as system, no manmade moral code can logically be superior to any other - they are all equal.

So, you see there are two possible moral systems - absolutism wherein morals are objective and universal and flow directly from the character and person of God; and relativism wherein morals are manmade and are wholly subjective. Under relativism, the words "right" and "wrong" are meaningless as these words suggest an objective moral standard which cannot exist under that system.

48 posted on 12/18/2003 10:00:04 AM PST by exmarine ( sic semper tyrannis)
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