FREEPING CALL TO ACTION! PROTECTING OUR TROOPS IN BAGHDAD --- We need your help

dfu | 12-18-03 | doug from upland

[doug from upland]

FReepers, a short time ago I posted an article about how lives are being saved by using Humvees with special armor. HERE IS THAT THREAD.

Yes, lives have been saved in Afghanistan thanks to the use of these Humvees. But we have a problem that needs action. These Humvees are not yet in Iraq. I have verified from an impeccable source that SOME OF THESE VEHICLES ARE SITTING IN BOSNIA! They don't belong there. They belong in Iraq.

Please start making the phone calls. Get this on talk radio. Post contact numbers on this thread, and let's get busy. Thanks.

[doug from upland]

Thanks for the info. If we find any of these anywhere in the world, they need to be in Iraq.

[doug from upland]

Does your brother say they are being used in Baghdad? My source was over there and heard complaints in Baghdad that they did not have them.

[MineralMan]

"Sounds like something an atheist would say. Watching out for others is too difficult for you.
"

Nonsense. There was virtually no information in this post. I leave military decisions to the military, because they know where all these vehicles are and where they are needed.

I note that a later post stated that 150 of these armored Humvees are already on their way from Bosnia to Iraq.

Before acting, one should have all the information. That is why I leave materiel decisions to military folks. I do not have the information and, apparently, whoever posted this did not either.

We can have a great influence, sometimes, but only if we act according to real, positive, accurate information. Flying of the handle based on some fragmentary report is a waste of time and damages other efforts.

My atheism has nothing to do with this.

[archy]

I have verified from an impeccable source that SOME OF THESE VEHICLES ARE SITTING IN BOSNIA!

What the hell are they doing there??

The primary threat in Bosnia has in general been from mines. These vehicles are more mine-resistant than those of the same type that are not armored.

That said, it looks to me loke the troops in both locales need armored Humvees. It may well be that some shortfall in Iraq can be remedied by shipping in some vehicles from Bosnia immediately, to be remedied by shipping half of the new vehicles to the troops on Bosnia to replace their older ones- and I'm sure they'd be glad to get some new replacements. How the troops in Iraq would feel about getting crapped-out Bosnian leftovers, but combined with takeoff parts from their unarmored vehicles now on hand, I bet they'd make out okay.

-archy-/-

[archy]

***The production levels are ridiculously low and slow to the need.***

Four per day, from the single-source supplier, Ohara, Hess and Eisenhardt of Cincinatti.

[StarCMC]

He didn't say specifically -- he only told me what I posted. But I do know that his station is located about 70 km south of Baghdad and he said they were headed North -- he didn't say how FAR north though. Stryker has been thru his checkpoint at least twice.

[Voice in your head]

There are M1114 Up-Armored HMMWVs in Bosnia and Iraq. There were supposed to be over 100 of them shipped from Bosnia to Iraq. Not sure if this has happened yet. Either way, there are Up-Armored HMMWVs in Iraq. It was mostly scout platoons from mechanized infantry battalions that had them, along with certain command elements and military police units. Those are the people who need them. When 3rd ID was preparing to leave, it turned in almost all of its Bradleys and drew HMMWVs that have no armor protection whatsoever. I was in Baghdad, so I cannot speak of what went down in Fallujah and elsewhere, but I am unaware of any deaths that would have been prevented by an Up-Armored HMMWV and I am aware of only a handful of injuries that would have been less severe, but none that would have been prevented. Most casualties occured while dismounted.

While mounted, I think what the light-skinned HMMWVs sacrificed in protection, they gained in the crew's mobility and ability to scan. Because the light-skinned HMMWVs provided no protection whatsoever, we removed the doors from them and sat side-ways, facing perpendicular to our direction of movement, with weapons oriented outward. We were vigilant and aggressive and always on the lookout for rock piles, any trash bags near the road, burlap bags, wires, etc.

An Up-Armored HMMWV, on the other hand, gives a lot of protection, but it does not allow you to scan your sector, during movement, and only the man in the turret can lay down any kind of well-aimed fire. The windows are tiny and the space inside is cramped, especially when you're wearing an interceptor vest with inserts and you've got ammo pouches, canteens, grenades, your assigned weapon, etc.

While I am personally unaware of any soldiers being killed because they were in a light-skinned HMMWV, rather than an Up-Armored one, I am aware of a soldier in an Up-Armored HMMWV being killed when an explosive was thrown underneath his vehicle, during movement. He was in the turret and was blown out the top of it. He was critically injured when he hit the ground. Had that patrol been sitting in a manner that allowed them to scan their sectors and immediately engage a threat, rather than being cooped up in an Up-Armored HMMWV, then that soldier might be alive. Then again, if the enemy's weapon of choice had been an RPG, then the vehicle might have saved their lives. The point is that each vehicle has its advantages and disadvantages and I don't see this as being much of a crisis.

The real fix, in my opinion, is to get more Bradleys on the streets. They are more maneuverable, afford better protection, provide better observation, have better firepower, hold more soldiers, provide a better platform for communication, are better suited for medical evacuation, and hold more equipment. See post 103 and 104: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1027429/posts?q=1&&page=103#103

[doug from upland]

Thank you very much for the info.

[international american]

Thanks Doug.Good post.

[GregB]

Maybe you can help me. My nephew is in Baghdad and drives a vehicle in which he has to get out of a hatch. Any idea what kind of vehicle it is? His is with the First Armored Division. I will spread the news...squeaky wheel gets oiled....

[international american]

Calling LA radio stations, thanks, Doug!

[doug from upland]

We have had a response that some of these are being used in Iraq. My source knew of none in Baghdad. If there are some of these in Bosnia or other areas, they need to be transported to Iraq ASAP.

[international american]

Merry Christmas!!!!!!!!

[SLB]

Your #47 seems to be right on target. How about a little recon by fire? See that trash bag beside the road? Fire it up with some 7.62 or maybe a 40mm from a Mk19 or M203! Use your heads and you will survive, rely on someone to tell you what to do and you will have a rough time.

[Voice in your head]

Sounds like one of those stories that we never told the commander about. :-)