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To: Michael81Dus
History has decided...

Historical determinism, or the idea that history somehow has a natural ("scientific") direction of its own, is an old Marxian fallacy. History doesn't decide anything, people do.

And Reagan was not only one of such people, in the case of the coup de grace dealt to the Soviet system he was DA MAN.

It wasn´t that bad at all that the left here got a chance to govern.

Ever after the WW II the Left were the real elite of West Germany, with a status similar to that of aristocracy of the time of Frederich the Great. Their very specific, German kind of Marxism was regarded as true polar opposite to Nazism.

Etablierte Linke dominates German universities, where it repoducts itself and populates the offices of the country with its disciples whose main political task is to uproot 'reactionary ideas', that is any conservative or right wing ones.

You see, they still believe in Germany that Nazism and fascism were extreme right movements. In reality however they were... er, read my tag-line.

50 posted on 12/26/2003 10:09:44 PM PST by Neophyte (Nazists, Communists, Islamists... what the heck is the difference?)
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To: Neophyte
Historical determinism, or the idea that history somehow has a natural ("scientific") direction of its own, is an old Marxian fallacy. History doesn't decide anything, people do.

Of course, history cannot change the past. But he who controls the history holds the key to the future (Orwell). People learn, don´t they? We learn by judging actions of the past in the present. That´s what we´re doing in this case, too.

We´re judging Reagans policy of the past TODAY. And we must come to the conclusion that many factors were decisive for the end of the Soviet Union. If it were not for Gorbatchov, the Communist Empire could still exist - because of a bloody oppression of its people. Economic collapse doesn´t mean political collapse.

I was a child during Reagans presidency, I´ve only heard from TV and books of his presidency and the criticism he faced by the Left.

By admitting that he was not the main player in the end of the soviet empire, which is a matter-of-course because he wasn´t in office then, you are in no way giving him less credit than he deserves. We can say that the Soviet Union would not have fallen so fast if it were not for Reagan. But we can also say that the Soviet Union still could exist if it were not for Gorbatchov and Bush.

Ever after the WW II the Left were the real elite of West Germany, with a status similar to that of aristocracy of the time of Frederich the Great.

Hardly. Adenauer ruled for 14 years, that was longer than Hitler reigned. Until the 70´s, the Conservative-Liberal people had a structural majority in our society.

Etablierte Linke

They´ve NOW lots of power here, but not back in Adenauers times.

My personal theory regarding extreme left and extreme right is that we can view the political ideas as a circle. Let´s say those who want the most freedom (pure capitalism, no state authority, anarchism) are at 360°. Then those who want most of state control, the totally socialist/communist state are at 180°. I´d say that the Left and extreme Right would be at 200° respectively 160°, and the normal Democrats/Republicans are at ca. 335-350° respectively 10-25°. Well, this is just my idea on how to deal with the terms Left/Right. In the end, both (extreme "right" and extreme "left") want the state to control it all - and the state would be governed by a few dictators.

52 posted on 12/27/2003 2:28:41 AM PST by Michael81Dus
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