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To: optimistically_conservative
optimistically_conservativewrote: (Except for religion the non-Muslims living in the Middle East share most of the cultural traits as the Muslims, but they are not at war with the West.) I believe that would be considered an irrelevant conclusion.

Nonsense!

If, as you say, this is a cultural war then the culture we presumably at war with is the Middle-Eastern culture.

But if we are at war with the Muslim part of the Middle-Eastern culture but not the non-Muslims then it is ipso facto a religious war.

The fact that we are not at war with each and every Muslim makes no difference, the salient fact is that everybody who is waging war against us is Muslim and they are waging thast war for religious reasons.

To make the cheese more binding, many Pakistani Muslims — who are not part of the middle-Eastern culture — are also at war with us.

In the name of islam.

That makes it a religious war.

31 posted on 12/27/2003 6:35:45 PM PST by quidnunc (Omnis Gaul delenda est)
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To: quidnunc
But if we are at war with the Muslim part of the Middle-Eastern culture but not the non-Muslims then it is ipso facto a religious war.

You mean like the secular and socialist Ba'athists?

The fact that we are not at war with each and every Muslim makes no difference, the salient fact is that everybody who is waging war against us is Muslim and they are waging thast war for religious reasons.

No, they are not waging a war for religious reasons, they are using religion to serve their ambitions. Religion is a rallying cry, but it is a neo-caliphate ambition that is driving the attacks on Muslims and non-Muslims both.

These tactics are not much different than what the NAZIs used to gain national support for their attacks leading to WWII. It was cultural identity that drove the purity and fatherland war cries.

It's been said that WWII was a war against facism. Albeit a popular phrase, the NAZIs were socialists and the Japanese were imperialists. I see these broadbrush claims of a religious war by Muslims much the same. It's easier to fit on a bumper sticker.

To make the cheese more binding, many Pakistani Muslims — who are not part of the middle-Eastern culture — are also at war with us.

I don't remember making the claim that we were at war with middle-Eastern cultured Muslims. We are at war with neo-caliphates. They are spread throughout the world. They are American, European, Indonesian, African and are densely populated in middle, middle-Eastern, central and south Asia. They share a common cultural ambition which is a rebirth of a global caliphate run from the holy lands. It is an Islamic caliphate and the fact that Muhammad ran every aspect of society certainly underlies the blurring of social functions in many of his followers minds, but the neo-caliphates are not pursuing a religious war as much as they are pursuing one of cultural identity.

41 posted on 12/27/2003 8:58:05 PM PST by optimistically_conservative (Nothing is as expensive as a free government service or subsidized benefit.)
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To: quidnunc
The fact that we are not at war with each and every Muslim makes no difference, the salient fact is that everybody who is waging war against us is Muslim and they are waging thast war for religious reasons.

What's the matter with those Muslims? Don't they realize that sodomy, abortion, fornication, and pornography are basic expressions of our constitutional rights? Do they really think they can impose their tradtition-bound religious values on us?

42 posted on 12/27/2003 9:07:06 PM PST by findingtruth
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To: quidnunc
one problem; not all the Muslims are at war with us. There are some from each branch of Islam, but not everyone even from any one branch. And there are nearly as many branches of Islam as there are of Christianity.

Making it merely a religious war is oversimplistic. It is a cultural war, and the cultures at war are the extremes, not the center.
48 posted on 12/28/2003 9:42:14 AM PST by Old Student (WRM, MSgt, USAF (Ret.))
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