If not Bush, then who?

12-28-2003 | agitate

[dcwusmc]

Oh, I can hack it, all right. It's you BushBots that can't seem to hack it enough to be civil and point out positive stuff instead of the name-calling and other barbra streisand. I could even put up with, if needs be, another Rat instead of a Rat-lite, because after that, a LOT of your ilk would be jumping on the bandwagon of getting rid of LOTS of FedGov.

So if you have anything to offer besides "Bush: he's a Socialist LITE" or "Move to France" or some such, convince me. The BS you're slinging wouldn't convince my 8-month old granddaughter.

[Consort]

Oh, I can hack it, all right.

Bull. And stop feeling sorry for yourself. You can dish it out but you start crying when someone gives it back to you. You're a whiner whether you realize it or not and nobody wants to waste time trying to reason with one. It's the same old tired song and dance thread after thread. It got old a long time ago.

[af_vet_rr]

You people are giving individualism a bad name and you're putting your distorted ideology ahead of country, party, and the rest of us.

If the GOP leadership came out and said they were pro-abortion and I said "they crossed a line with me, I'm no longer supporting the GOP", I suppose you'd tell me I had a distorted ideology wouldn't you?

[af_vet_rr]

What I find interesting is that many FReepers who have stated they are not going to vote for Dubya in 2004 are sitting on their behinds posting on Free Republic instead of getting behind their perfect candidate(s).

You make several excellent points.

The only thing I can counter with is that the "perfect candidate(s)" probably want nothing to do with what our political/electoral system has become. They see how ugly things get when you have

[arasina]

If the GOP leadership came out and said they were pro-abortion and I said "they crossed a line with me, I'm no longer supporting the GOP", I suppose you'd tell me I had a distorted ideology wouldn't you?

Finally, someone put it into words I can understand without resorting to namecalling and low rhetoric. Excellent and relevant point.

[Consort]

If the GOP leadership came out and said they were pro-abortion...

The Dems are the party of abortion and you want to help them one way or another. That makes you no better then them. Like I said: In a two party system, if the GOP loses, we all lose. None of the third parties are making any strides.

[dcwusmc]

I am not the one who started the fear-mongering and rudeness. And I am NOT convinced by your tactics. But you go right ahead and put down everyone who disagrees with you (Ah, the TEMERITY of them, huh? To disagree with BUSH and not support him because he GREW government instead of shrinking it. What ARE they thinking???). See just how many people you convince that way. Quite frankly, I, for one, do not care. If Bush won't even bother with LIP SERVICE to the Constitution, let alone doing anything substantive for its restoration, this country does not need him in office. I know a Rat will be the same, but perhaps a Pubbie Congress will keep him in check. Or perhaps not. They didn't show a lot of spine after they won in '94. But perhaps people like you will keep their feet to the fire this time around. More likely, though, you'll piss and moan about "those principled idiots who wanted someone to keep his oath" rather than face reality and find a candidate who will HONOR the country and Constitution. The ball's in your court. Whatcha gonna do? Besides be a jerk some more and invite me to move to France, I mean....

[Consort]

I am not the one who started the fear-mongering and rudeness.

You're changing the subject and pretending to be offended — again (you've done this before and it doesn't work).

To disagree with BUSH and not support...

It's not just about Bush (you people are fixated on him); it's about the ideology of the people in charge. If Bush loses, what will his Democrat replacement do for you, for the constitution, for the military, for pro-life, for pro-gun, etc......? Do you think the Dems will fix the border problem?...the education problem (which they caused)?...lower our taxes (they will undo Bush's tax cuts)? ¿What will the Dems do for you?

[dcwusmc]

So essentially all you have to argue with is fear of the Dems. What if there is, at essence, NO DIFFERENCE? 2A? Bush has said he has NO PROBLEM with the AWB and would sign an extension if/when it crosses his desk. The Constitution overall? How many ways has the Administration, with the connivance of Congress and the Courts NOT used the Constitution as a doormat or as toilet paper? CFR, more farm subsidies, trashing the 2nd, 4th, 9th and 10th amendments, and that's just for openers. So please point out what the difference IS between the Pubbies and the Rats. They BOTH want to keep us headed in the same direction. The ONLY difference I see is that YOUR ILK cheers Bush on, where you would be apoplectic if an AGore or Dean administration did the IDENTICAL things. Sorry, that doesn't wash with me.

[af_vet_rr]

The Dems are the party of abortion and you want to help them one way or another. That makes you no better then them. Like I said: In a two party system, if the GOP loses, we all lose. None of the third parties are making any strides.

You have no clue about what I'm saying, so I'll try an easier explanation.

I have certain Conservative beliefs that I've held for the past thirty plus years I've been old enough to vote. Up until about ten years ago (some would say the post-Reagan era), the GOP had certain Conservative beliefs that fit closely with or were identical to my own. The GOP has changed since then in regards to those beliefs and only gives them lip service when the cameras are rolling.

This isn't meant as an insult, but might come across as one. You are more flexible in your beliefs than I am, and appear willing to set aside those beliefs simply so the GOP can win. I cannot do that. I will stick to what I believe in, even if those beliefs are old-fashioned.

I do not believe in casually setting aside beliefs that I have held for decades (and have had reinforced over that time), simply because you want the GOP to win.

[WhiteGuy]

The way I see it is that I have just ONE vote.

That is the sum total of my ability to influence those who wish to represent me.

It is my voice.

My vote must be earned.

Because I believe in small and limited government, I cannot in good faith award my one and only vote to any candidate who advocates or facilitates large and intrusive government.

[Xenalyte]

If not Bush, then who?

Tom Tancredo.

[Consort]

Everybody has core beliefs. Some are rigid and some are flexible. Some core beliefs are better than others. Some or all are cancelled out by others on election day. I respect other's core beliefs — until they impinge on my life, as would be the case if you helped to elect Democrats by the way you vote or don't vote based on your "core beliefs". Then your core beliefs become problematical for me and for many others. It ain't just about you. Clinton was elected by people with core beliefs...so was Hitler, I suspect.

[Consort]

If Bush loses, what are the Democrats going to do for you?

[dcwusmc]

So you want to respect someone's core beliefs ... unless it's inconvenient for you. You're absolutely right, it's not about us... it's about YOU and all about winning. You could sit and watch this country fall over the abyss and not blink an eye. As long as it's YOUR guy leading the way. Sorry, stud muffin, but I am not suicidal nor fratricidal... nor do I wish to see my country go down the tubes just so YOU can have YOUR guy win an election. I'm sure you can appreciate that there are no GOOD choices in this election, so unless a good third party comes along, that slot will stay blank.

[dcwusmc]

If Bush loses, what are the Democrats going to do for you?

The same thing BUSH would do: not a single thing to roll back Big FedGov. With them, of course, I have no illusions. With Bush, I had a couple at one time. No longer, though. Snake oil is snake oil no matter WHAT label the huckster wears...

[Consort]

...not a single thing to roll back Big FedGov.

No one is going to do that...so don't hold your breath. Again, if big government makes you unhappy, then prepare to be unhappy for the rest of your life, but try to keep your unhappiness to yourself.

[af_vet_rr]

Then your core beliefs become problematical for me and for many others. It ain't just about you.

It isn't just about you either. I have a right to have my Conservative beliefs represented, through my vote.

Your less-Conservative beliefs (less Conservative than mine) become problematical for me, in that if the GOP keeps moving to the left/center and keeps getting elected, then they feel that Conservatives are approving of their policies, and there is nothing to keep them from moving even more to the left.

They'll reason "hey, people keep electing us, so they must approve of what we have been doing".

If we don't make a stand now, we risk the future of this nation being turned into another second or third world socialist mess. Sure, I'll be dead before it happens, but I don't want my grand-children or great-grand-children to have to deal with it then, because by then it's liable to be too late.

You can see me as a problem and I can see you as a problem, and maybe neither of us is right, but oh well, we are just going in circles now.

[Leatherneck_MT]

I think that continued discussion with the "Bush at all costs" crowd is fruitless my friend.

Obviously we cannot come to an agreement with them that the Republican Party needs a wakeup call in order to drag it back kicking and screaming to it's conservative roots.

Unfortunately the party has left us and we either tag along like good Republican Sojers, or, we stay put and wait for them to come back. If ever.

Me, I'm staying put. I'll be here if they ever do come back, but until they do they cannot count on my financial or physical support any longer.

[Consort]

You can see me as a problem and I can see you as a problem...

I often use the phrase "It's the voters, stupid" because the voters are the ones who put the politicians into office and directly (in some states) and indirectly elect/appoint people to the Electoral College. When the voters want more conservatives in government, they will put them there. Same thing with big, unlimited government....when the voters don't want it, they will vote for those why will change it. It's not complicated.