MOVEON.ORG FEATURES AD COMPARING BUSH TO HITLER...

Drudge Report ^ | SUN JAN 04 2003 14:37:17 ET

[Kaslin]

It is my understanding that Soros donated his money to to moveout.org

[Roberts]

Rush would have a field day with a moron like that.

[Dont Mention the War]

How exactly is what the geeks at moveon are doing ANY different from all those posts here at FR that did the same thing? I remember countless times the images of clinton painted up to look like hitler, and that's not to mention all the people who still refer to hillary as hitlery.

The difference is that FR is a message board where anyone can come on and blather about anything as long as they're not out to disrupt the place. Such forums will always have a certain amount of people making the occasional extreme comments.

Moveon.org, by comparison, is a supposedly "legitimate" political organization with direct ties to the Democratic Party, that made this "Bush = Hitler" ad a finalist in a competition to choose a commercial that is going to be aired on TV stations across the country.

The difference that FR has some users that like to make comparisons between Dean and Hitler, or Clinton and Hitler, often as jokes more than anything else, while Moveon is an organization with hundreds of thousands of supporters, almost all of whom openly claim that Bush really is a Hitler clone, and are donating money to put such opinions on the air.

If you cannot see the difference, I don't know what else to tell you.

"We're not going to post anything that would be inappropriate for television." - Moveon.org contest rules

[Lord_Baltar]

Sadly, Earl, I agree with you.

I just think once it gets to the point that we start down the path of having to compair people we disagree with to a Monster, with the blood of quite literally multi-millions on his hands, we've sunk far below the point of concievable return.

I've seen a bunch of "well, they do it" defences here, but it still comes back around to OK, well, they do it, and we're talking about how hate filled they are, but then in the SAME thread while discussing how hatefilled they are, we're doing EXACTLY the same thing.

It STOPS when both sides take their "hitler bullets" outta that political gun.

In short, When they do it They ARE Morons. When we do it, we ARE Morons.

[Lord_Baltar]

Dean?

So you're saying it's OK to compair hillary or bill clinton to hitler as long as it's done here, sorta, kinda in the shadows.

BUT

It's wrong if they are being a wee bit more open about it?

Also, it's OK if we do it, because, of course, we're just joking (?), but it's wrong if they do it, because they, of course know we're just joking, and we know, of course, they aren't?

Sorry Dean, no matter how you spin it, doing that is just plain wrong, no matter who is being compaired to hitler, either us, or them.

Sorry

[MississippiMan]

The hatred of the left for our President is beyond comparison

I wonder if we've entered an era where feelings about every president are going to be severely polarized. The vitriolic polarization inspired by Clinton was surely understandable, but I've been very surprised by the reversed-yet-similar atmosphere in the political public regarding the Bush presidency.

Much to my chagrin, Bush has inarguably turned out to be a moderate at best, about as far as you can get from hardcore conservatism without joining the Democratic party, yet the left still hates him with a demonic passion. I find it very puzzling, and also think we may see similar feelings from here on out, no matter who the president is.

MM

[Lord_Baltar]

MississippiMan;

(funny, I hadn't even planned on posting to this thread at all)

What we're seeing from the left toward Bush, is almost a photo image of what the right felt for clinton. It's too bad we can't access many of the posts from that period here.

The vitriol was just as rabid, the venom just as angry, and the hatred just as real, right here on FR.

It's just sad that what we're seeing seems to be the shape of political discourse from here on out, no matter which party wins the White House.

[Dont Mention the War]

So you're saying it's OK

No, that's not what I am saying. And why do you keep calling me "Dean?"

[herkbird]

Can you post that picture with Hillary Clinton's face pasted onto the picture. I really miss working in a course ware development lab with all the neat software to modify pictures. I did it for several years before my medication made it impossible for me to continue. I really miss those days and all the fun on the side. Thanks for the Billyboy de Fuhrer picture.

[spodefly]

I am hoping MoveOn.org and the Democrats put this ad on the air often, and that average Americans begin to see MoveOn.org and the Democrat party as one and the same.

[WOSG]

Indeed. They based it on a set of comments.... " ... We have taken new measures to protect our homeland,
I believe I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator,God told me to strike at al-Qaida and I struck them, ..." reported in Arab media but never stated by Bush himself and repudiated by the press secretary.

So a smear wrapped around a lie,

[WOSG]

Actually, here in Texas, Peggy Venable of CSE mentioned this in an open letter, and our local Liberal editorial writer scoffed at the connection, likening it to "mccarthyism".

I responded to that with an informative letter and article pointing that McCarthy has been unfairly maligned and that something is a 'guilt-by-association' fallacy only if there are not real links. Yet the reality is that over 300 Soviet agents were spies for Stalin and were working in the US Government in the 1940s. So "McCarthyism" should be a label for describing a danger that is real.

[WOSG]

Thanks for a great list.

Now I know which entertainment products to avoid.

[WOSG]

"It STOPS when both sides take their "hitler bullets" outta that political gun. "

The Leftists have been playing the "Conservatives=Fascist" card for eons. They did it to Reagan Bush I, Newt, and now GW Bush. It' horrid, but responding in milquetoast fashion neither wins respect nor converts from the other side.
So, the FR turnabout aint quite fair play, but is a natural consequence of the Carvillization of politics.

I recall in 1995 when the Clinton administration flunkies were calling Republicans TERRORISTS -- that is right - you, me and anyone else who voted for Newt were TERRRORISTS with guns to the heads of American children, simply because of a dispute over funding in the FY1996 budget.

Goebbels would have been proud of the Clinton administration. I say this sincerely - the "spin cycle" was a well-formed organ of political propaganda. You dont understand the depth of *well-deserved* contempt and disgust for how low Clinton brought American politics: Trivializing the serious, and raising the trivial to heights of undeserved attention. Doing everything for power, and treating political opponents as graver enemies than foreign terrorists and tyrants.

MoveOn proves that we havent moved on, the gutter is still fully occupied and they will leave no slander unused if it gets attention and creates hate.

That is why I fully understand the FR tags, the cute photoshop slam-jobs on our political enemies and the name-calling. It is the only suitable answer that *works* at someday actually STOPPING that behavior. (See below as to why).

I think the "Hitlery" label is kinda cute myself, and I am wont to call some Liberals "Jackboot Liberals" when they get in their regulatin-and-lock-up-anyone-who-opposes-the-new-PC-order point of view.

fact is, if these ads comparing Bush to Hitler - however demeaning, lying, horrible, disgusting and anti-american ... actually WORKED ... these leftist scum would not stop for a second to air it. But it wont work. So it wont be shown.

The point you make, that it is an illegitimate form of political discourse, is alas one reason *to* use it on the Left. You see, they use these techniques all the time - how to get them to stop using them? Very simply - use the same technique and totally debase the currency of "Hitler" as a useful analogy. In this manner it is not argumentation per se so much as mockery and sarcasm against the Left's trite and phony attempt to place National Socialism on the right side of American politics. At some point, a few liberals will wake up and say "see conservatives do X Y Z and that is why they are bad. so let's not do X Y and Z." Kind of like how they rediscovered civil rights as an issue at DOJ when Ashcroft replaced Reno as Attny General.

[JLAGRAYFOX]

You good folks have just gotten a good taste of what is coming from the "traitor/treason" Democrat Party and their associated goons and fellow travelers. That is why it is so vitally important that you make a small money donation to the GW Bush re-election effort. One or two million $25-100 dollar contributions will wipe the Democrats off the map. Ten million small offerings will destroy the current Democrat Party at the ballot box. Please get with the program. The future of America, your families and children at are stake!

[weegee]

MoveOn got SmackedDown...

SIMON WIESENTHAL CENTER CRITICIZES MOVEON.ORG FOR POSTING AD COMPARING BUSH TO HITLER

[weegee]

The antiwar movement had PLENTY of President Bush as Hitler banners around the world and they never got rebuked. They also had plenty of communist (and PRO-STALIN) banners and yet the lamestream press said that conservatives/Republicans were overreacting calling the protestors "communists".

[weegee]

Something else that needs to be remembered in all of this. Republicans were called "nazis" at least once from the Congressional floor in the 1990s. This is the level of politics that the Democrats have brought us to. Despite all of Bill Clinton's talk of ending the politics of personal destruction and a request for more civility, MoveOn are his cronies and Carville and McAuliffe have continued their dirty politics.

Also remember that there was some talk from Germany that President Bush was like Hitler.

A bit late for the media to start saying that the left is way over the line in rational discussion.

[Tim Osman]

I've heard plenty of right-wing radio talkers call HRC "Hitlery" and seen plenty of photoshops with Hillary in Nazi garb, even the trademark Hitler mustache!

Guess it goes both ways.

[Kaslin]

Good post