Notice Regarding Immigration Related Threads

[SandRat]

Well, in both cases they are immigrants. The term "illegals" is a pejorative term only used against undocumented immigrants ...

Let's see if I have this straight?

No matter how someone came to this country, through proper channels or sneaking across the border in the still of night or over staying a legal Visa they are an immigrant and to say someone is illegal is pejorative and judgmental; right?

First, I would suggest that you check the immigration laws and how they define what is an immigrant and an illegal alien.
Secondly, it is the purpose of the rule of law to be pejorative and judgmental for behavior that violates the law. Clearly there are varying levels of law violation ranging from simple misdemeanors (with multiple classes) to felonies (with multiple classes ranging up to capital offenses.

Violators of the law must be charged and judged based on the type of offense and the level and class of offense. The law is the law, and we have process in place in this republic to change the law when the citizenry decides that a change is necessary, but until them the law and the definitions of the offenses remains the law and must be enforced. There is an old adage "don't make a law if you aren't going to enforce it."

Please lay off the NAZI analogies it only diminishes the talking point of the user of that term.

[Cultural Jihad]

Exactly. But my point in bringing up the "illegals" status of Jews in Nazi Germany was that everything that Hitler ever did was all perfectly legal according to the then German constitution, and that the law is not a religion, and that people who are being dehumanized are in danger of being unjustly persecuted. Indeed, everyone is called to disobey laws which conflict with their consciences. The excuse of "only following lawful orders" is not a valid one.

Too often we see posts advocating or extolling the commission of felonies upon people who are committing misdemeanors, as if they therefore deserve any abuse or outrage committed against them, since they are "despicable people" and "all violent criminals" and "terrorists against our public treasury" and "illegals." It was against those cruel and unjust ideas that I brought up the sad chapter from the previous century, not to equate but to warn.

[jmc813]

There are sincere people who support the breaking of laws, whether it be drugs laws or gun ordinances.

Nothing wrong at all with supporting the breaking of gun ordiances IMO.

[Lead Moderator]

Yeah but your entire point gets lost in the fact that there is simply no comparison between the two. I am going to use some words of Jonah Goldberg here.

"Show me the camps. Show me the millions of people being gassed. Show me the tattoos on people's arms. Show me elderly... men being beaten in the streets, their stores smashed, and books burned. Show me huge piles of emaciated bodies stocked high like cords of wood."

If you can't show me that, then the analogy to the Nazis is so not even in the ballpark as to completely overwhelm whatever point you were trying to make. It is the debate equivalent negation of "you had me at hello"- you lost me at Nazi.

It is needless baiting and we need to lose that approach on these (and other) threads.

[Happy2BMe]

"I only propose that they (the National Guard) cover the areas B.I.C.E. lack the resources to cover, as the military has those and the least corruptible personnel to succeed in that mission."

I second your proposal.

There is one small caveat for consideration first though.

The National Guard (those authorized by the U.S. Constitution to protect our national borders) can't play.

They are playing in Iraq - in numbers unheard of since the Second World War.

One of my sons is an officer in the Army National Guard. We just said "see you in a year or so" a few days ago as he goes on to additional advanced training and then to Iraq.

His unit (part of the 7th ID) has been recalled in it's entirety. This is the first mass recall that division has had since the 1940's.

I had several good hours of quality time with my son to reflect on his mission, values, and what he wanted to accomplish while serving in uniform in Iraq.

One comment will readily come to my focus for years to come:

"Dad. When I get back, the first thing I want to see this country do is defend our border with Mexico."

[ovrtaxt]

Thanks for the intervention. Hopefully things will clean up quickly. The other night i checked a thread on this topic and the last 20 or 30 posts was just people accusing each other of 'starting it first.' Not very informative.

Maybe it would help if we typed in classy English accents? It just sounds so polite.

[Cultural Jihad]

Thankfully the camps, the Zyclon-B gas, the tattoos, the beatings, the smashed stores and burned books, and the piles of corpses are only in the angry heart, not in the land.

[Lead Moderator]

I bet if everyone used Wingdings as their font, we would get much fewer flame wars!

[Lead Moderator]

Think what you want. But lose that debating 'tactic' from the repertoire, please.

[Cultural Jihad]

Think what you want. But lose that debating 'tactic' from the repertoire, please.

Will do, but it's not a matter of thinking what one wants. I have seen too many posts which advocate "shoot shovel and shutup" and too few people pointing them out.

[Brian Allen]

<< Civility BTT.

I don't practice it myself, but if others want to... >>

HehHehHeh .....

[Bump/Ping]

[gitmo]

Excellent call. I am proud to tell people I am a FReeper, and encourage my friends and co-workers to visit FreeRepublic whenever a topic comes up that would likely be covered on FR. That doesn't happen as often as I would like, rarely over 10-12 times a day.

But sometimes I cringe, worried their first introduction to FR will be some flame war. I told them it was a serious discussion of conservatism, liberalism and who knows what else. And I told them to expect a lot of friendly teasing and joking. But if people stumble into a bunch of us treating each others like anal sphincters they're going to spread the word that FR is NOT a place for serious discussions.

[Lead Moderator]

Well, I'm trying to change that. I said earlier in the thread that I do think that anyone who shares the same political views with someone who is being abjectly racist or instigating violence (or calling for it or condoning it) has the responsibility of calling them on it, even more so than someone who opposes those political views. And that goes beyond Free Republic. Tolerating that crap is political suicide and almost certainly ensures that whatever issue one is advocating will never go their way.

[shaggy eel]

Civility

,,, romantic notion BUMP [LOL]

[antaresequity]

Can you post those 15 points on the immigration issue?

I have been looking all over for that and even freep-mailed ya....

Pretty please?

[ovrtaxt]

Perhaps you can just make the fonts of the 'frequent offenders' Wingdings. Mostly happy faces and hearts...

[Lead Moderator]

No matter how bad a flame it is, when done in wingdings it just doesn't come across that bad. (But if anyone is reading this, no, don't start masking your flames and curses in Wingdings, I'll still catch it lol)

[jmc813]

a

Does anyone else find this mildly dirty, or am I just a sicko? On second thought, don't answer that.

[NewRomeTacitus]

God bless you and your valiant son. Young men with such insight are sorely needed in our political establishment, for who can decide better than those who have been there?
It's sad to see a man like John McCain lose sight of the best interests of his country. Kerry and Clark are sad reflections of the men they once were, their vision muddled by their handlers. Our President is beholden to not only our interests, but to the memory of all the Vietnam vets who payed the price in his place. He should remember those young folks who died before their time before considering putting a pen to any contract that rewards the right of American citizenship to lawbreaking profiteers who have no investment in our dream. The dream those soldiers, no matter their political or social differences, still lead point and ratted the tunnels for. The people who are still coughing up lung-matter despite defoliants used are officially non-harmful. The people displaying unique symptoms today from the toxic battlefield they lived in ten years ago. Those whose bodies were dragged through the filthy streets of Mogadishu for the lack of civilized support policy. Think on the sacrifices of America's selfless defenders, Mr. President, before demeaning their sacrifices with a shallow political expediency like granting blanket amnesty to a group who aren't worthy of shining those men's boots.

[xJones]

OMG, now you done it. I gave up worrying as my 2004 New Year's Resolution and you busted that in the first week.

BILLINGS, Mont. -- Yellowstone National Park happens to be on top of one of the largest "super volcanoes" in the world. Geologists claim the Yellowstone Park area has been on a regular eruption cycle of 600,000 years. The last eruption was 640,000 years ago making the next one long overdue. This next eruption could be 2,500 times the size of the 1980 Mount St. Helens eruption.

And on top of that, San Francisco is overdue for the next big one, which means that the Christopher Lloyd show might be interrupted. This was a bad week to give up worrying, to paraphrase Airport.