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Notice Regarding Immigration Related Threads

Posted on 01/04/2004 7:55:31 PM PST by Lead Moderator

Edited on 01/04/2004 8:43:28 PM PST by Lead Moderator. [history]

Hello everyone.

I've been talking to some long time Freepers via email for several weeks (one in particular). His concern was over the immigration threads and how they turn out on Free Republic.

Many times these threads turn into flame wars. There appears to be a lot of pent up hostility that various factions have developed for each other which ends up coming out, over and over, and the result is that the threads turn into a lot of crap. The moderators get hit with dozens of abuse reports over personal attacks and other silliness. Eventually, it becomes more work than is really worthwhile, and the threads get moved to the backroom so we don't have to deal with it.

This is an OK status quo when it occurs just occasionally. But when it happens frequently, it is not OK. That means that there is a problem.

So we are going to try to fix the problem.

There are sincere people on both sides of the debate who have gotten too into the battle that they are no longer being constructive. The goal will be to help them get back on track.

But we have two groups of people who are completely not sincere.

One group is those who really have no other goal other than to try to fracture conservatives and turn them on each other. One group is those who think that those most concerned with immigration are really just bigots and want to shout them down.

The good news is that both of these groups are very, very small. The bad news is that lots of people are firmly convinced that many of those who are just riled up sincere Freepers are actually part of one of these small groups. In other words, a lot of suspicion of motives has come about.

We're going to have to overcome that.

One of us tried something with a topic which had developed a similar problem, the Creation/Evolution threads. We'll give that type of approach a try for the immigration threads.

So here is what is going to happen. Starting tomorrow, when I see an immigration related thread go up, I am going to post immediately a warning that this would be a very bad thread to engage in insulting or flame baiting. When I see someone ignoring the warning, I'll address them personally telling them to knock it off.

What we need those who are serious about the issue to do is to act responsibly during this time. Engage in debate, without the insults. Post arguments, not ad hominems. Post facts, not innuendos. If you don't like someone, figure out a way to not have it get in the way of your postings. If you want to be disagreeable, do so without being needlessly disrespectful and instigative.

What will happen is, over time with this approach, those who are just trying to stir up crap, and those who are unable to help themselves, will stick out like sore thumbs and will get the axe.

And once that happens, then more direct involvement will not be needed, which I think everyone will agree is the preferred way.

So ping those who you know are interested in debating the topic to this thread, so they can see what is coming.

Thanks


TOPICS: Free Republic
KEYWORDS: adminlectureseries; aliens; bombsawaynomore; flamewars; fr; freerepublic; immigrantlist; immigration; nettequite; playnice
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1 posted on 01/04/2004 7:55:32 PM PST by Lead Moderator
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To: Sabertooth
ping
2 posted on 01/04/2004 7:57:11 PM PST by Lead Moderator
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To: Sabertooth; JustPiper
Ping for your ping lists
3 posted on 01/04/2004 7:58:57 PM PST by sarasmom (Punish France. Ignore Germany. Forgive Russia.)
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To: All
Rank Location Receipts Donors/Avg Freepers/Avg Monthlies
27 Kentucky 175.00
4
43.75
178
0.98
10.00
1

Thanks for donating to Free Republic!

Move your locale up the leaderboard!

4 posted on 01/04/2004 7:59:04 PM PST by Support Free Republic (Your support keeps Free Republic going strong!)
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To: Lead Moderator
This seems like a good idea. Thank you.
5 posted on 01/04/2004 8:01:07 PM PST by Miss Marple
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To: Lead Moderator
I don't participate in the immigration threads but I do prefer this solution to out right banning. To bad it wasn't tried with the McClintock/Arnold threads.
6 posted on 01/04/2004 8:01:40 PM PST by farmfriend ( Isaiah 55:10,11)
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To: Lead Moderator
Abuser: WHAT DO YOU WANT?
Man: Well, I was told outside that...
Abuser: Don't give me that, you snotty-faced heap of parrot droppings!
Man: What?
Abuser: Shut your festering gob, you tit! Your type really makes me puke, you vacuous, coffee-nosed, maloderous, pervert!!!
Man: Look, I CAME HERE FOR AN ARGUMENT, I'm not going to just stand...!!
Abuser: OH, oh I'm sorry, but this is abuse.
Man: Oh, I see, well, that explains it.
Abuser: Ah yes, you want room 12A, Just along the corridor.
Man: Oh, Thank you very much. Sorry.
Abuser: Not at all.
Man: Thank You.
(Under his breath) Stupid git!!
7 posted on 01/04/2004 8:01:42 PM PST by stylin_geek (Koffi: 0, G.W. Bush: (I lost count))
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To: stylin_geek
LOL! Too funny.
8 posted on 01/04/2004 8:03:23 PM PST by farmfriend ( Isaiah 55:10,11)
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To: Lead Moderator
Civility BTT.

I don't practice it myself, but if others want to...

10 posted on 01/04/2004 8:07:09 PM PST by Billthedrill
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To: stylin_geek
I better rephrase that lest someone think I am being serious.

This is not an argument! An argument is a connected series of statements intended to establish a proposition.

11 posted on 01/04/2004 8:08:27 PM PST by Lead Moderator
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To: Billthedrill
You don't practice it because you already have it down pat.

But I better not point that out or I'll ruin your bad rep.

12 posted on 01/04/2004 8:09:20 PM PST by Lead Moderator
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To: Lead Moderator
It would be more simple to just ban people who don't agree with me... =o)
13 posted on 01/04/2004 8:17:52 PM PST by GeronL (The French just can't stop being French.)
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To: Lead Moderator
An argument can be described as a series of propositional phrases?
14 posted on 01/04/2004 8:18:37 PM PST by stylin_geek (Koffi: 0, G.W. Bush: (I lost count))
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To: Lead Moderator
I am not on the immigration threads, but once again, I am delighted that Free Republic strives to keep this site a place where constructive dialog takes place.

(Yeah, yeah, I know: suckup)

Now maybe I can read the immigration threads and learn something.
15 posted on 01/04/2004 8:18:55 PM PST by kitkat (Purr, purr)
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To: stylin_geek
No it can't.
16 posted on 01/04/2004 8:19:34 PM PST by Lead Moderator
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To: Lead Moderator
Thanks, this is actually a good idea, I'm merely being, well, me.
17 posted on 01/04/2004 8:19:48 PM PST by stylin_geek (Koffi: 0, G.W. Bush: (I lost count))
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To: stylin_geek
Note to self: Picking on the Lead Moderator is probably not a good idea.
18 posted on 01/04/2004 8:21:03 PM PST by stylin_geek (Koffi: 0, G.W. Bush: (I lost count))
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To: stylin_geek
They call me lead because I'm an old softy.
19 posted on 01/04/2004 8:21:57 PM PST by Lead Moderator
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To: sweetliberty; MeeknMing
FYI Ping.
20 posted on 01/04/2004 8:22:59 PM PST by nicmarlo
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To: Lead Moderator
Excellent idea. I'll do my best to comply.
21 posted on 01/04/2004 8:25:30 PM PST by PRND21
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To: Lead Moderator
Immigration threads seem long on speculation/hate/worry and short on facts/ideas. I'm waiting to see what ideas are actually offered up by the government.
22 posted on 01/04/2004 8:26:05 PM PST by Mike Darancette (Proud member - Neoconservative Power Vortex)
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To: Lead Moderator
I'll do my part by bumping this every chance I get; There are many who should see this (read-need to read this, and take it to heart) that may not be around right now. Are you private messaging anyone that this applies to, LM?

Great Idea, BTW!
23 posted on 01/04/2004 8:32:12 PM PST by The Coopster
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To: The Coopster
No, I am not. I am not going into this with any preconceptions about who is what.

What you can do to help is just post a link to this thread on any immigration related threads you see going until I start, to give this more visibility.

24 posted on 01/04/2004 8:35:37 PM PST by Lead Moderator
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To: Lead Moderator
No, I am not. I am not going into this with any preconceptions about who is what.

*smacking head* Duh. I guess that should've been obvious, as a Moderator is supposed to be impartial.

What you can do to help is just post a link to this thread on any immigration related threads you see going until I start, to give this more visibility.

That's more efficient. Thanks for the advice.

25 posted on 01/04/2004 8:39:36 PM PST by The Coopster
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To: Lead Moderator
Wait a minute, if you're called Lead because you're an old softy, then that means you are a Number 2 Pencil Lead and if you're Number 2 then who is really the LEAD Moderator? :o)
26 posted on 01/04/2004 8:42:42 PM PST by arasina (<-------------too sensitive)
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To: Lead Moderator
It seems that you have volunteered for lancing the boil and containing the spleen as to something akin to the Israel-Arab conflict. A large task, although granted, unlike that conflict in the real world, you have the zot. If it seems intractable, just make it go away. It sounds almost like a Stephen King novel. Good luck.
27 posted on 01/04/2004 8:44:26 PM PST by Torie
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To: Lead Moderator
Gotcha!!!
28 posted on 01/04/2004 8:47:38 PM PST by Mears
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To: Mears
No you didn't!
29 posted on 01/04/2004 8:49:47 PM PST by Lead Moderator
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To: Lead Moderator
(Thinking only positive, loving and happy thoughts!)

Bloody Well Took Long Enough!

Is there any way we can extend this to the Leo-antiLeo and WOD threads as well? Those tend to generate enough heat to create plasma states.
30 posted on 01/04/2004 8:54:26 PM PST by Dr.Zoidberg (Did you see me escaping? I was all like WOOB, WOOB, WOOB, WOOB, WOOB, WOOB!!!)
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To: Dr.Zoidberg
One problem at a time.

Besides, I am avoiding that for as long as possible, due to the inherent difficulty involved in them. Many of the WOD thread people do not respond well to the entire concept of moderators.

31 posted on 01/04/2004 8:58:30 PM PST by Lead Moderator
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To: Lead Moderator
I understand. Best of luck then.
32 posted on 01/04/2004 9:00:11 PM PST by Dr.Zoidberg (Did you see me escaping? I was all like WOOB, WOOB, WOOB, WOOB, WOOB, WOOB!!!)
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To: Mike Darancette
Immigration threads seem long on speculation/hate/worry and short on facts/ideas

Sometimes the available facts are insufficient to totally circumscribe and contain pessimistic speculation as to what the future holds. One must make do as to what one has, and hopefully that will somewhat contain the more severe cases of angst among the more reasonable.

By the way, did you know that about once every million years of so a huge volcanic eruption or asteroid wipes out the bulk of life on this planet, and every 100 million years of so, a mega asteroid wipes out almost all non aquatic life, and that about 3 asteroids a week allegedly get within about 100,000 miles of earth? Also, did you know that Yellowstone is overdue to blow again, and that is the biggest volcanic formation under land on Earth, and if it blows a big one again will kill everything within several hundred miles, and put the grain belt in America under a foot or so of ash? I didn't either until I read the wrong chapter in Bill Bryson's most fascinating book about A Short History of Nearly Everything.

Maybe we should get out worry beads out about THAT!

33 posted on 01/04/2004 9:04:40 PM PST by Torie
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To: Lead Moderator
If this works, can we use it on the contrarian/precious metals financial threads as well. They could really use a good hosing down.
34 posted on 01/04/2004 9:11:18 PM PST by DeaconBenjamin
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To: Lead Moderator
Many times these threads turn into flame wars. There appears to be a lot of pent up hostility that various factions have developed for each other which ends up coming out, over and over

------------------------

You can expect this to continue unless you want to close down this site. There are several hot issues here which evoke emotion. There are personalities who hate each other. There are various jealousies and pettinesses. There are occasional psychiatric problems.

35 posted on 01/04/2004 9:16:45 PM PST by RLK
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To: Lead Moderator
One of us tried something with a topic which had developed a similar problem, the Creation/Evolution threads. We'll give that type of approach a try for the immigration threads.

So here is what is going to happen. Starting tomorrow, when I see an immigration related thread go up, I am going to post immediately a warning that this would be a very bad thread to engage in insulting or flame baiting.

This is a great development, thanks for posting this thread.

One suggestion: why not have and Immigration/Borders "hot topic" forum, as you do with Anthrax Scare and War on Terror? Not only would it make your job of tracking these threads easier, the sheer number of threads on these subjects warrants it.

Check out the following compilation threads over the last few months:

AAAAUUGH! latest 100 threads relating to illegal immigration

AAAAIIIIIIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!

AAAHHHHH! Latest 200 posts on illegal immigration


36 posted on 01/04/2004 9:17:56 PM PST by Sabertooth (Have a Happy New Year, Freepers)
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To: Lead Moderator
any of the WOD thread people do not respond well to the entire concept of moderators.

Whatever happens,
You have got
The mighty... ZOT!
And they have not.
With apologies to Hilaire... and Sir Hiram.

d.o.l.

Criminal Number 18F

37 posted on 01/04/2004 9:23:45 PM PST by Criminal Number 18F
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To: Torie
If it seems intractable, just make it go away.

Given the experience I witnessed on the crevo threads, I don't think it'll necessarily trend that way. In that case, the subject remains, but the loss of a few key players went a long way towards improving the civility of the effort. Fair warning for the immigration-thread participants, I guess - I can think of several crevo-thread unpersons, and I don't doubt for a second that it'll happen again. If the posters remain intractable, rather than the subject, that is...

"I'm wishing you into the cornfield!"

38 posted on 01/04/2004 9:25:12 PM PST by general_re ("Frantic orthodoxy is never rooted in faith, but in doubt." - Reinhold Niebuhr)
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To: Lead Moderator
I suppose this will work.

So does suspending posting privileges.
39 posted on 01/04/2004 9:25:16 PM PST by BeerSwillr (Profanity free since 2003-12-17 20:41:45)
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To: Torie
By the way, did you know that about once every million years of so a huge volcanic eruption or asteroid wipes out the bulk of life on this planet, and every 100 million years of so, a mega asteroid wipes out almost all non aquatic life, and that about 3 asteroids a week allegedly get within about 100,000 miles of earth? Also, did you know that Yellowstone is overdue to blow again, and that is the biggest volcanic formation under land on Earth, and if it blows a big one again will kill everything within several hundred miles, and put the grain belt in America under a foot or so of ash? I didn't either until I read the wrong chapter in Bill Bryson's most fascinating book about A Short History of Nearly Everything.

Maybe we should get out worry beads out about THAT!

Maybe so...

Scientists closely monitoring Yellowstone. 200 degree ground temperatures reported.
      Posted by Happy2BMe
On News/Activism 01/01/2004 8:33:27 PM PST with 601 comments


Idaho Observer ^
Scientists CloselyMonitoring YellowstoneProLiberty.com12-23-3   Recent eruptions, 200 degree ground temperatures, bulging magma and 84 degree water temperatures prompt heightened srutiny of park's geothermal activity...  BILLINGS, Mont. -- Yellowstone National Park happens to be on top of one of the largest "super volcanoes" in the world. Geologists claim the Yellowstone Park area has been on a regular eruption cycle of 600,000 years. The last eruption was 640,000 years ago making the next one long overdue. This next eruption could be 2,500 times the size of the 1980 Mount St. Helens eruption. Volcanologists have been tracking the movement of magma under...

40 posted on 01/04/2004 9:28:01 PM PST by Sabertooth (Have a Happy New Year, Freepers)
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To: Lead Moderator
Thank you. Since my state has felt a direct impact (Florida) I appreciate your response.
41 posted on 01/04/2004 9:29:39 PM PST by Beck_isright ("Deserving ain't got nothing to do with it" - William Money)
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To: Lead Moderator
Man, that sounds like a lot of work (on your part). Good luck!
42 posted on 01/04/2004 9:33:49 PM PST by AM2000
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To: Torie
in Bill Bryson's most fascinating book about A Short History of Nearly Everything.

I'm sure you have read some of my legion of posts on catastrophism. I read Bryson's book in one sitting and found it most interesting as it seemed to hit most all of the high spots.

The difference between things like immigration and super volcanoes, BFRs and climate catastrophes is that the latter don't require that blame be assigned and that one solution is probably as ineffectual as another.

43 posted on 01/04/2004 9:35:13 PM PST by Mike Darancette (Proud member - Neoconservative Power Vortex)
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To: Lead Moderator
cool
44 posted on 01/04/2004 9:36:22 PM PST by fso301
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To: Sabertooth
Another little factlet from Bryson is that we don't know if there are 2 million or 200 million species on Earth, and either number is about equally likely. Another is that raccoons once were were the size of hippos. In fact, at one time, there were a lot of very BIG mammals. One of the biggie explosions almost wiped out the horse family. All but one of the 16 species was wiped out. Where would we be without the horse? A theory is that another of the biggies (I don't remember which one), cut down to homo sapiens to a few thousand on the entire planet, a number at which they remained for a long time. The theory goes on as to that is why the genetics of homo sapiens are so remarkably unvariegated, indeed less variegated across the species as a whole, than one nuclear family of apes.

Have I caught your interest yet?

45 posted on 01/04/2004 9:37:29 PM PST by Torie
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To: Mike Darancette
I agree which is why I stopped posting in many of them
46 posted on 01/04/2004 9:38:04 PM PST by cyborg
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To: Torie
A theory is that another of the biggies (I don't remember which one), cut down to homo sapiens to a few thousand on the entire planet..

The eruption of the Toba Super Volcano about 80,000 BCE.

47 posted on 01/04/2004 9:44:53 PM PST by Mike Darancette (Proud member - Neoconservative Power Vortex)
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To: Lead Moderator
Hey - I don't see what all the fuss over the immigration threads is about. The answer is really very simple.

Just deport all Democrats and grant amnesty to all illegal Republicans - problem solved.

The real debate is over left vs right. Lefties just can't be right, unless they're shooting with left-handed guns, then they might be right.

Yep, you should check out that left-handed gun thread -
The Left-Handed Gun
seems a little violent to me. ;>)

FReegards,
RebelTex

Rebel Flag Texas Flag

48 posted on 01/04/2004 9:49:40 PM PST by RebelTex (On rare occasions I may be wrong, but I'm always RIGHT!)
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To: Lead Moderator
How about something like this for the Islamic threads?

There's an awful lot of bigotry that doesn't occur on threads about other religions.
49 posted on 01/04/2004 9:54:25 PM PST by nuconvert ("This wasn't just plain terrible, this was fancy terrible. This was terrible with raisins in it.")
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To: Lead Moderator
Y'know what, I'm going to give you the same advice I've already given in the past. And I mean no disrespect in what I'm about to tell you, because I know you have a tough job.

BUT: if the hits are high, get the hell out of the way. The people have spoken by virtue of the hits, and when you fry the post you only get hard feelings as a reward. So long as no large memory images are in the thread, you should let the battle rage. We will deal with lib disruptors and their tactics.

Trust us, we are more qualified than you with regard to what constitutes a garbage post.

Watch for threats and bad language; otherwise, sit back and enjoy.

50 posted on 01/04/2004 10:00:05 PM PST by yooper
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