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To: demlosers
new technology that stops CD copying also stops fans playing them on some devices and making legitimate back-up copies

A weak case. DVDs don't play in my VCR, so is this actionable?

2 posted on 01/06/2004 9:57:24 AM PST by RightWhale (Repeal the Law of the Excluded Middle)
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To: RightWhale
A weak case.

Nope; an iron-clad case.

DVDs don't play in my VCR, so is this actionable?

In general, the sale of a product carries an "implied warranty of suitability". That is, if it doesn't work as a reasonable and prudent purchaser would expect, it's defective and the purchaser is entitled to recourse.

A reasonable and prudent purchaser would not expect a DVD to play in a VCR. A reasonable and prudent purchaser would expect a CD to play in a CD player (of whatever type -- stereo rack, car, computer, etc).

4 posted on 01/06/2004 10:03:25 AM PST by steve-b
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To: RightWhale
Your analogy doesn't hold, as VCRs are not designed nor intended to be able to play DVDs. The copy protection keeps individuals from using the CDs on devices designed and intended to play audio CDs:

Not only will the Celine Dion audio disc fail to play on new flat-screen iMacs but it will lock the CD tray and prevent the machine from been rebooted properly. This is not something users can fix themselves and means a trip to a dealer for repairs. An article on Apple's knowledge base explains the issue in more depth.

There's an easy workaround for this, though, documented in that same article in The Register in the UK: http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/54/25274.html

5 posted on 01/06/2004 10:03:47 AM PST by mvpel (Michael Pelletier)
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To: RightWhale
A weak case. DVDs don't play in my VCR, so is this actionable?

You sue on the basis of false advertising if they sell a disc (with no warning labels) as a CD and it does no conform to CD standards and will not play in your player.

7 posted on 01/06/2004 10:08:51 AM PST by Paul C. Jesup
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To: RightWhale
A weak case. DVDs don't play in my VCR, so is this actionable?

There is no reasonable expectation that a DVD should play on a VCR. On the other hand, there is a reasonable expectation that an ISO-9660 CD should play on any ISO-9660-compliant CD player on the market.

8 posted on 01/06/2004 10:10:05 AM PST by Prime Choice (Americans are a spiritual people. We're happy to help members of al Qaeda meet God.)
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To: RightWhale
Anti-copying technology tends to have a short lifespan and unexpected side-effects.

I once was an afficianado of the steam-driven Commodore 64 computer. At some point some of the software publishers (the C64 used those old five and half inch very floppy floppy disks) tried to make their stuff copy-proof by drilling tiny holes in their floppies in sectors that the software never referenced but which most standard wall-to-wall copying programs would read while making copies; trying to read the sector with a hole in it would cause the disk drive to blow a fuse. This backfired mightily: It was VERY common among users that, when software became obsolete for some reason (such as a revised edition), the disk of the old version would be re-used for storage, so trying to recycle these perforated disks in a perfectly legitimate way destroyed disk drives.

Oh, and the use of holes to prevent copying (and some other tricks, such as requiring a special "dongle" to be plugged into one of the C64's sockets to generate a particular register value without which the software wouldn't run), was eventually circumvented by more innovative copying techniques that simply duplicated what was loaded inside the computer's memory instead of on the disk.

9 posted on 01/06/2004 10:10:43 AM PST by DonQ
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To: RightWhale
A weak defense. If I can't make backup copies of the software I buy, it goes back to the store. Same with music and videos. If I can't protect the investment, which is quite a large one in my case as with others, then their product isn't worth owning. Period. I'm not into being scammed to buy the same thing over and over because they can't create a quality product to begin with. Nor will I.
The bottom line is that these idiots are trying to play the same game the auto industry did - build a product that goes to crap in short order so it must be replaced regularly. The auto industry just didn't blame it on Car thieves. They were honest enough to admit they were being greedy and underhanded.

As a consumer, I have rights too. When the rights of two parties colide, that doesn't mean that the second party has no rights in the matter. Business has a right to protect it's investment; but, so to does the consumer.
18 posted on 01/06/2004 10:53:06 AM PST by Havoc ("Alright; but, that only counts as one..")
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To: RightWhale
A weak case. DVDs don't play in my VCR, so is this actionable?

No. VCRs aren't designed to play CDs. A computer CD player, however, is designed to play CDs. Since the data track interferes with your playing your CD in your CD player, the addition of the data track makes the CD non-functional, aka defective and the company adding the data track, for whatever reason, becomes subject to legal action for a. selling a defective disk and b. preventing the owner from making a backup copy for his own use, a copy he is entitled to make under existing copyright law.
21 posted on 01/06/2004 11:08:52 AM PST by aruanan
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To: RightWhale
".... DVDs don't play in my VCR, so is this actionable?"

Only if the DVD is marketed and being compatible with VCRS. In this case, the "protected" CDs ARE being marketed and being playable on CD players.
23 posted on 01/06/2004 11:16:59 AM PST by taxcontrol (People are entitled to their opinion - no matter how wrong it is.)
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