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Dean vs. Dean -- pass it on!
ElephantParty ^ | 1/6/2003 | Jagrmeister

Posted on 01/06/2004 6:47:00 PM PST by jagrmeister

Freepers,

You can help give Bush an early advantage in the general election with his near-certain opponent, Howard Dean.

Over the last few days, I've put together a feature called "Dean vs. Dean" which shows what it would sound like if Howard Dean debated himself. All the quotes are taken directly from Howard Dean himself (all quotes are followed by their source to validate their origins).

It's a humorous read. Here's what we can do: create an e-mail campaign where we get this piece out to as many people as possible. Please forward it to your friends, family - even independents and Democrats. This could be one of those emails that flies around the Internet with great effect. On an earlier thread, Jim Rob himself complemented the "Dean vs. Dean" mock debate. I think it makes the point without being mean-spirited. Even hard-core Democrats may get a chuckle from this.

To email, please copy and paste the below text:
----------------------------------------

"Dean vs. Dean" - http://www.elephantparty.com/

Howard Dean, former Governor of Vermont, is a Democratic candidate for President. Here is how it might sound if Howard Dean chose to debate himself on the important issues of the day. (All of the statements below are actual quotes from Howard Dean)
----------------------------------------
On War with Saddam Hussein's Iraq
----------------------------------------

Dean: "Is the security of the United States affected by what's going on in Iraq today? … I don't believe it is." ("Meet the Press," March 9, 2003)

DEAN: "There's no question Saddam is a threat to the U.S. and our allies." ("Face the Nation" on Sept. 29, 2002)

"I think Saddam must be disarmed." (Associated Press, Feb. 5, 2003)

Dean: "Now we're stuck there, because there was no serious threat to the United States from Saddam Hussein…” (debate, Durham, N.H., Dec. 9, 2003)

DEAN: "I never said Saddam was a danger to the United States, ever." (Dec. 10 news conference in Concord, N.H.)

Dean: "I'm not against attacking Saddam Hussein" (news conference, Sept. 19, 2002)

DEAN: "I opposed the Iraq war when everyone else up here was for it" (Debate, Jan 4)

Dean: "It's conceivable we would have to act unilaterally [in Iraq]." (Des Moines Register)

DEAN: "Why do we have to do everything in a unilateral way? It's not good for the future of the foreign policy of this country…” ("Face the Nation," Sept. 29, 2002)

Dean: "We clearly have to defend the United States, and if we must do so unilaterally, we will." ("Face the Nation," Sept. 29, 2002)

DEAN: "I disagree with unilateral war." (“PBS Newshour”)

----------------------------------------
On Capture of Saddam Hussein
----------------------------------------

Dean: “This is a great day for the Iraqi people, the U.S., and the international community.” (Dean statement)

DEAN: “The capture of Saddam has not made America safer.” (Dean speech to Pacific Council)

----------------------------------------
Should Osama receive the death penalty of life sentence in prison?
----------------------------------------

Dean: “I still have this old-fashioned notion that even with people like Osama, who is very likely to be found guilty, we should do our best not to, in positions of executive power, not to prejudge jury trials.” (interview with Concord Monitor)

DEAN: “…as an American, I want to make sure he gets the death penalty he deserves.” (phone interview with AP)

----------------------------------------
Race in America
----------------------------------------

Dean: “Here are also a very significant number of folks in this state to whom it [the confederate flag] is a symbol of oppression and slavery.” (Charleston Post)

DEAN: "I still want to be the candidate for guys with Confederate flags in their pickup trucks." (Des Moines Register)

Dean: "Dealing with race is about educating white folks…." (Boston Globe)

DEAN: "I am tired of being divided by race in this country." (CNN "Rock The Vote" Democratic Debate Nov 5, 2003)

----------------------------------------
Medicare And Social Security
----------------------------------------

Dean: "The way to balance the budget is for Congress to cut Social Security, move the retirement age to 70, cut defense, Medicare and veterans pensions, while the states cut almost everything else." (Newhouse News)

DEAN: "I have never favored Social Security retirement at the age of 70, nor do I favor one of 68." (debate, Aug. 5, 2003)

Dean: "I also would entertain taking the retirement age to 68." (Meet the Press, June 2003)

----------------------------------------
Death Penalty
----------------------------------------

Dean: "I don't support the death penalty for two reasons. One, you might have the wrong guy, and, two, the state is like a parent. Parents who smoke cigarettes can't really tell their children not to smoke and be taken seriously. If a state tells you not to murder people, a state shouldn't be in the business of taking people's lives." (Slate.com)

DEAN: “…The death penalty would be a just punishment for certain, especially heinous crimes, such as the murder of a child or the murder of a police officer. The events of Sept. 11 convinced me that terrorists also deserve the ultimate punishment.” (Statement, June 2003)

----------------------------------------
Middle East Peace Approach
----------------------------------------

Dean: "We have to stop terrorism before peace negotiations" (Forward)

DEAN: "[I don't] believe stopping the terror has to be a prerequisite for talking." (CNN)

----------------------------------------
Any Final Thoughts
----------------------------------------

Dean: “Trying to have it both ways demonstrates neither strong leadership nor good judgment.” (Boston Globe)
----------------------------------------
----------------------------------------
"Dean vs. Dean" - http://www.elephantparty.com/
"Dean vs. Reality" - http://www.elephantparty.com/reality.htm


TOPICS: Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: 2004; clintonesque; dean; doubletalk; howard; howarddean
Some of you might be concerned- "Let's wait until they pick Dean before attacking him." Dean has the money, momentum, and endorsements to finish off the opposition. With the field divided so many ways, it is nearly impossible for an anti-Dean to emerge because they are dividing the vote of dissent 8 different ways. In fact, now is a golden window of opportunity to "plant the seeds" in the public mind of Howard Dean's character so that when he finally emerges as the nominee, he will be damaged goods. The key is to do this incrementally and in a non-inflammatory way.

Everyone has a few people they know who they can pass this on to. If we can get this circulating, Howard Dean, who will be the Dem nominee barring some miracle on behalf of another candidate, will have an uphill climb to prove to people he is trustworthy.

1 posted on 01/06/2004 6:47:02 PM PST by jagrmeister
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To: All
Rank Location Receipts Donors/Avg Freepers/Avg Monthlies
8 Florida 720.00
23
31.30
808
0.89
478.00
33

Thanks for donating to Free Republic!

Move your locale up the leaderboard!

2 posted on 01/06/2004 6:47:40 PM PST by Support Free Republic (I'd rather be sleeping. Let's get this over with so I can go back to sleep!)
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To: jagrmeister
Your urls didn't come through with this posting, as they did before.
3 posted on 01/06/2004 6:52:36 PM PST by expatpat
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To: jagrmeister
Some of you might be concerned- "Let's wait until they pick Dean before attacking him." . . .


Hey, we can start putting on this bumper sticker right now!

4 posted on 01/06/2004 6:54:22 PM PST by Vigilanteman
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To: expatpat
Here is the HTML version:

Dean vs. Dean

Howard Dean, former Governor of Vermont, is a Democratic candidate for President.  Here is how it might sound if Howard Dean chose to debate himself on the important issues of the day.  (All of the statements below are actual quotes from Howard Dean)

On War with Saddam Hussein's Iraq

Dean:  "Is the security of the United States affected by what's going on in Iraq today? … I don't believe it is." ("Meet the Press," March 9, 2003)

Dean: "There's no question Saddam is a threat to the U.S. and our allies."  ("Face the Nation" on Sept. 29, 2002)

           "I think Saddam must be disarmed."  (Associated Press, Feb. 5, 2003)

Dean: "Now we're stuck there, because there was no serious threat to the United States from Saddam Hussein…” (debate, Durham, N.H., Dec. 9, 2003)

Dean:  "I never said Saddam was a danger to the United States, ever." (Dec. 10 news conference in Concord, N.H.)

Dean: "I'm not against attacking Saddam Hussein" (news conference, Sept. 19, 2002)

Dean: "I opposed the Iraq war when everyone else up here was for it" (Debate, Jan 4)

Dean: "It's conceivable we would have to act unilaterally [in Iraq]." (Des Moines Register)

Dean: "Why do we have to do everything in a unilateral way? It's not good for the future of the foreign policy of this country…” ("Face the Nation," Sept. 29, 2002)

Dean: "We clearly have to defend the United States, and if we must do so unilaterally, we will." ("Face the Nation," Sept. 29, 2002)

Dean: "I disagree with unilateral war." (“PBS Newshour”)


On Capture of Saddam Hussein

Dean: “This is a great day for the Iraqi people, the U.S., and the international community.” (Dean statement)

Dean: “The capture of Saddam has not made America safer.” (Dean speech to Pacific Council)


Should Osama receive the death penalty of life sentence in prison?

Dean: “I still have this old-fashioned notion that even with people like Osama, who is very likely to be found guilty, we should do our best not to, in positions of executive power, not to prejudge jury trials.” (interview with Concord Monitor)

Dean: “…as an American, I want to make sure he gets the death penalty he deserves.” (phone interview with AP)


Race in America

Dean: “Here are also a very significant number of folks in this state to whom it [the confederate flag] is a symbol of oppression and slavery.” (Charleston Post)

Dean: "I still want to be the candidate for guys with Confederate flags in their pickup trucks." (Des Moines Register)

Dean: "Dealing with race is about educating white folks…." (Boston Globe)

Dean: "I am tired of being divided by race in this country." (CNN "Rock The Vote" Democratic Debate Nov 5, 2003)


Medicare And Social Security

Dean: "The way to balance the budget is for Congress to cut Social Security, move the retirement age to 70, cut defense, Medicare and veterans pensions, while the states cut almost everything else." (Newhouse News)

Dean: "I have never favored Social Security retirement at the age of 70, nor do I favor one of 68." (debate, Aug. 5, 2003)

Dean:  "I also would entertain taking the retirement age to 68." (Meet the Press, June 2003)


Death Penalty

Dean: "I don't support the death penalty for two reasons. One, you might have the wrong guy, and, two, the state is like a parent. Parents who smoke cigarettes can't really tell their children not to smoke and be taken seriously. If a state tells you not to murder people, a state shouldn't be in the business of taking people's lives." (Slate.com)

Dean: “…The death penalty would be a just punishment for certain, especially heinous crimes, such as the murder of a child or the murder of a police officer. The events of Sept. 11 convinced me that terrorists also deserve the ultimate punishment.” (Statement, June 2003)

Middle East Peace Approach

Dean: "We have to stop terrorism before peace negotiations" (Forward)

Dean: "[I don't] believe stopping the terror has to be a prerequisite for talking." (CNN)


Any Final Thoughts

Dean: “Trying to have it both ways demonstrates neither strong leadership nor good judgment.” (Boston Globe)

5 posted on 01/06/2004 7:01:46 PM PST by jagrmeister (I'm not a conservative. I don't seek to conserve, I seek to reform.)
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To: jagrmeister
Thx
6 posted on 01/06/2004 7:03:26 PM PST by expatpat
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To: jagrmeister
Excellent Jag.

FMCDH

7 posted on 01/06/2004 7:08:53 PM PST by nothingnew (The pendulum is swinging and the Rats are in the pit!)
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To: jagrmeister
Excellent Jag.

FMCDH

8 posted on 01/06/2004 7:09:09 PM PST by nothingnew (The pendulum is swinging and the Rats are in the pit!)
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To: BartMan1; Nailbiter
ping
9 posted on 01/06/2004 7:10:07 PM PST by IncPen ( Remember: Make your comments worthy of a repost at DU!)
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To: jagrmeister
You can help give Bush an early advantage in the general election with his near-certain opponent, Howard Dean.

Howard Dean is looking less certain by the day. The Democratic machine (fire-belching Oz as manipulated by Bill and Hillary behind the curtain) has turned against him, and the attacks are starting to score for effect. There has been a shift, possibly a decisive shift, and Clark stands to benefit more than any other candidate.

The race is still Dean's to lose, but his chances aren't nearly as certain as they were last month, last week, or even yesterday.

10 posted on 01/06/2004 7:19:58 PM PST by Kevin Curry
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To: Kevin Curry
I've noticed this as well and CNN/Gallup is reporting that Clark is making gains in national polls. In response, I expect that Dean is going to turn his surrogates loose - Al Gore, Bill Bradley, Jesse Jackson Jr. - people who we may scoff at but people who matter in Democratic circles. These surrogates are going to become more vocal in their support of Dean- because they believe in his candidacy but also because they don't want to go down as having backed a loser. If Gore loses this one, it will prove that Clinton can beat him with one hand tied behind his back. If Gore has any self-respect, he'll go to the mat for Dean.
11 posted on 01/06/2004 8:16:39 PM PST by jagrmeister (I'm not a conservative. I don't seek to conserve, I seek to reform.)
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To: jagrmeister
Wow. I made this post about Dean probably going to get more aggressive with surrogates, and just a few hours later, I come across this:

--
By JODI WILGOREN
Published: January 7, 2004

LTOONA, Iowa, Jan. 6 — Former Vice President Al Gore is scheduled to spend Friday and Saturday campaigning for Howard Dean in the eastern Iowa cities that gave Mr. Gore an overwhelming victory in the 2000 Democratic caucuses. Then he heads to South Carolina on Dr. Dean's behalf later this month.
Mr. Gore's wife, Tipper, is likely to be the headliner at several events for Dr. Dean next week, Dean campaign aides said. And Mr. Gore's rival in the 2000 primary fight, former Senator Bill Bradley, who made his endorsement official on Tuesday with twin appearances in Des Moines and in Manchester, N.H., has agreed to sign an e-mail solicitation for contributions.
At the same time, Representative Jesse L. Jackson Jr. of Illinois, who is featured in an advertisement for Dr. Dean now running on black radio stations in South Carolina, plans to make several visits to stump for him in that state before its Feb. 3 primary. Representative Robert Menendez of New Jersey will do the same in the heavily Hispanic states of Arizona and New Mexico, which vote the same day.

More ...
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/01/07/national/07DEAN.html
---

I couldn't believe it. Not to toot my own horn, but I nailed the 3 surrogates exactly including Jesse Jackson Jr. Dumb luck has served me well.
12 posted on 01/06/2004 11:15:13 PM PST by jagrmeister (I'm not a conservative. I don't seek to conserve, I seek to reform.)
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To: jagrmeister
"Let's wait until they pick Dean before attacking him."

I say attack now.

I want the Rev. Al to be the nominee.

He is the most unique in the field.

A democrat with a genuine sense of humor.

I want the race for the White House to be entertaining and Al is the only man in the Democratic field who can bring some lightheartedness to the table.

13 posted on 01/06/2004 11:22:50 PM PST by PFKEY
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To: PFKEY
I think Crazy Al will rack up the delegates. Jesse Jackson carried a number of Southern states when he ran and finished second in others. Al just needs over 15% in a state to win some delegates- and with blacks constituting 1/3 to 1/2 of the Dem primary voters in many Southern states, Fat Al should do just fine. I hope he drives a hard bargain at the Democratic convention and gains some concessions like Slavery Reparations- that will go over real well in mainstream America.
14 posted on 01/06/2004 11:43:13 PM PST by jagrmeister (I'm not a conservative. I don't seek to conserve, I seek to reform.)
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To: jagrmeister
Seriously, folks--this man is EXTREMELY dangerous to the security of this nation.
I say attack now, get him out of the race. Our nation cannot afford an "October Surprise," a last-minute false accusation against GWB by the Demos which allows this idiot to win the election. We cannot afford to take that chance!
I sent this "debate" out to everyone I know!
15 posted on 01/07/2004 12:15:22 AM PST by ATCNavyRetiree
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To: ATCNavyRetiree
Thanks for forwarding it. I am hoping it gets shuttled around the Net. I will know that's the case when someone sends me a copy. That may not happen for a while but I'm not ruling it out.
16 posted on 01/07/2004 1:16:14 AM PST by jagrmeister (I'm not a conservative. I don't seek to conserve, I seek to reform.)
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To: jagrmeister
Repaired link to Dean bumper sticker.
17 posted on 01/07/2004 3:37:15 AM PST by Vigilanteman
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