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Rush: Like It or Not, Bush Leads
Rush Limbaugh ^ | January 8, 2004 | Rush Limbaugh

Posted on 01/08/2004 4:16:14 PM PST by ejdrapes

Like It or Not, Bush Leads
January 8, 2004

Listen to Rush...
(…discuss the substance and politics of the immigration disagreement)

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT 12:10 PM ET

RUSH: What's still on everybody's mind out there is this immigration business. And we've got some audio sound bites on this and some stories. I want to start out though with a little ditty, if you will, how should I phrase this? I guess I could call it leadership.

And I do to want contrast some things going on here, President Bush with recent Democratic presidents, or a recent Democrat president, in the current crop of Democrat candidates. It's about this immigration business. I know there's outrage and anger out there and I think it's real, and, by the way, I know it's real and I know that there are many of you that are beside yourselves you don't understand this and you're just fed up and you think, "My gosh just being taken for granted and forgotten." And many of you are saying that this is pure politics, I don't like this, this is trying to secure the Latino vote, and there is no Latino vote, and they already got 30% of the Latino vote in the 2000 election, so what's the deal?

But let me ask you something. For those of you who think that this is a purely political maneuver on the part of the White House, do you disagree with the politics of it or do you disagree with the substance of it? I mean, you may say both, but you can't ignore the substance in this, can you? You disagree with the substance of this as much as you do the politics. In fact, some of you probably, I would venture to say that the vast majority of you who disagree with the announced immigration policy yesterday disagree more so with the substance of it than you do with the politics. The politics of it maybe you could somewhat understand, might disagree with it, but you don't understand the substance. And so the key is, to me here, we are in a futile disagreement over substances here as well as, if not more so, than politics.

But aside from the outrage and the anger on the right, there is something important to note here. Now I'm just going to throw it out there, and you're free to accept it and absorb it and process it and deal with it or you can reject it but I still want to throw it out there, because for better or worse what has happened here is the first Bush salvo of 2004. And it's not random. This is not throwing it up against the wall and hoping it sticks. This is not saying, "Hey, what we can do to make people like us today, hey, throw that out there, see if they like that, poll on where I should go on vacation." We're dealing with somebody who is coming up with substantive proposals here, whether you disagree with them or not, it's a planned, coordinated, timed announcement.

Now, the consensus seems to be that Bush is risking his base in order to gain Hispanic votes. The New York Times today theorizes that Bush is simply trying to be nice. This is just the new version of compassionate conservatism, that he's again seeking the votes of people that pay scant attention, who don't like stridency. New tone, think new tone, that this is just an outgrowth of the new tone. We're just going to be nice to people! And that it's a pitch for that group of people. But regardless of what it is, it is a planned and coordinated and timed announcement. As I say, the consensus seems to be that Bush is saying [raspberry sound] to the base in order to gain Hispanic votes. Now, oftentimes the consensus is right, but oftentimes it's wrong. Consensus opinion sometimes has a tendency to be way wrong.

Here's some things to consider about this as you stew in it, some things to consider as you consider to fume about this. What Bush has proposed is legal status, proposed, and I want to emphasizes proposed and this is something I began with yesterday. This is all going to be up for debate. He did not issue an executive order, he's not using the Clinton MO, he's not pardoning all Mexicans on the last day of his administration, he's not pardoning all illegals and then flying the coop with the White House silverware while Janet Reno makes a speech in some hangar. He is doing this out in the open. He's not using a judicial MO, there's no executive order, there's no fiat here, there's going to be debate about this. Debate has already begun. And the president, for better or worse, in terms of the substance of this, is taking on another leadership challenge. I mean it would be much easier to duck this. It would be much easier to duck it and wait for somebody in Congress to come up with their own version, or say, "You know what, I'd be safer if I don't do this. I mean, it's an election year, I've got a dunderhead out there named Dean who is screwing up every day. What do I have to do? I'll just sit back and relax at the ranch and play golf, I'll advance a couple tax proposals, but I'll take it easy." He's not doing that!

Here he is in the midst of an election year, this is a true substantive issue, and this is, he thinks, and the substance is something I want to focus on, because I've been thinking about that this morning because the debate has been going back and forth about whether this is wholly political. As I say, you can't take the politics out of it, but there's substance here, and admit it, folks. It's the substance of this that has you mad, not the politics. As I say the politics may have you upset - it's the substance of it that you just don't understand and you're just trying to figure it out. It doesn't make any sense so why do this, you know, why do this now? This is the kind of thing you do in an off year, this is the kind of thing do you when nobody will notice, this is the kind of thing you sign at two o'clock in the morning when even the press corps is still in the bars and they're not even going to be sober enough to write the story right in the first place once they hear about this. They did this under the full morning sunshine, well, afternoon sunshine yesterday. After a whole day of the nation talking about it, the president goes on interrupting 15 minutes of this program, a communication breakdown there, to announce the policy. And I'm struck buy this.

He could have said, "You know what, I think on this immigration thing we need to mend it but not end it," which is what Clinton said about what? Mend it - affirmative action. Yeah, we need to mend that but not end it. This is not that, this is not avoiding the issue, this is not sweeping it underneath rug, this is not letting somebody else deal with it, this is taking it on. And it strikes me that whether you agree with it or not, you've got some leadership going on here. You know, real leaders lead in the war on terrorism. The whole world thought that was a mistake. The whole world was lined up against us ostensibly, and the whole world said we shouldn't do it and everybody, the Democrats were aligning with the world in trying to talk to the president, he wouldn't be dissuaded, would he? Went ahead, stimulate the economy, tax cuts, going to do it, doesn't matter what people say, going to tackle it, needs to be done, coming out of a recession, when he takes office. And yeah, that's right, he ran touching the third rail of Social Security, risking political electrocution. You just don't do that, but he's talking about privatizing Social Security and that's going to be brought up, that's going to happen.

Now, for those of you - I know a lot of you think he's out there pandering for votes but remember his sister-in-law is Hispanic, his nephew is Hispanic. I mean, he's got Hispanics throughout his family. This business of pandering is, you know, if you want to think it, go ahead, I'm not going to try to talk you out of anything I just want to throw something out there else for you to consider.

Now, amidst all of this, we got the Democrats, we got the MoveOn.org crowd, we've got Wesley Clark and Howard Dean all these other guys are calling Bush an extremist. Now, if you look at the domestic agenda of this administration the last thing any Democrat would call it is extremist it's been pretty much what they want in a lot of ways, so why do these Bush-haters hate Bush? And I've advanced this theory once before, and I think it really comes home here in this issue again. One of the reasons Bush-haters hate Bush is because he's actually doing something he's actually leading. I mean these guys are trying to construct a legacy for their boy, Bill Clinton, and their boy doesn't have a legacy, that's why they're having to manufacture one out of whole cloth and thin air.

By comparison, regardless of what he is doing, Bush is leading. It is a matter of substance from issue to issue to issue and Bush by an A-B, side-by-side comparison is making their boy look really bad, and they love their boy, their boy is the greatest thing that ever happened to the country, if they could only get him back. And Bush is making this guy look as inconsequential as a president has ever looked. I mean, Bill Clinton said out there, "You know I worked harder than I ever have on this" on about 14 things that he never got done, and Bush is not talking about how hard he's working. He's getting things done. You could say that Clinton was all talk and no leadership. Bush is all leadership and no talk.

So, like this or not, we've got a problem here in immigration, and he's facing it, and he's doing what he thinks is right about it. Now, we're free to disagree with it, but it is an issue of substance, and again I'm going to admit and acknowledge that there's a political component to here to it, but the disagreement is primary on substance. And, remember now, this is up for debate. It may not ever happen. He did not demand this, and he did not put it on us with an executive order, he's throwing it up to the Congress, our elected officials, and I might say that in that very Congress, there are 180 Democrats who want every illegal given a green card today.

Now, let me give you this possibility. Let's say that you are the president, you are the president's team and you know that you've got 180 Democrats in the House, maybe more, who want this issue so badly because they, too, want the Latino vote, and they want to give every illegal a green card, amnesty, and citizenship today, nothing less. Well, you don't like that, you can't do that, how do you stop that? So you come up with your own plan that slows down what the Democrats are trying to do. Maybe doesn't stop them and maybe is not conservative enough but you know that that's going on, and you have to stop it somehow because that's not what you intend with this. There is no blanket amnesty here, and there is no blanket citizenship here, folks. All there is, as I said yesterday, is hope. All there is some opportunities for some of these people. But it is not a blanket amnesty, and it is not granting illegals automatic citizenship or legal status right off the bat in mass in toto.

Anyway, in the Washington Post today, I know I'm a little long here, "Democratic strategerist speaking on a not-for-attribution basis described the proposal as brilliant politics that could help to refurbish Bush's compassionate conservative credentials, appeal to moderate swing voters and make it much harder for Democrats to win several states on their target list." Quote from this guy who didn't want his name used, "They've done a lot to try to put the general election away, and at a minimum they may have taken Arizona and New Mexico off the table," and it's no coincidence that Bill Richardson, the governor of New Mexico is fit to be tied over this. At any rate, so what - Arizona, New Mexico, big deal. Folks, I'm not trying to persuade you of anything here. Throwing it out. You're going to make up your own minds on this anyway.

END TRANSCRIPT



TOPICS: Extended News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: aliens; bushisdemocrat; bushishillary; bushisliberal; democratbush; illegalimmigrants; junkie; pseudoamnesty; rush
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1 posted on 01/08/2004 4:16:16 PM PST by ejdrapes
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To: ejdrapes
Gordo Remora the great enabler
2 posted on 01/08/2004 4:19:57 PM PST by joesnuffy (Moderate Islam Is For Dilettantes)
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To: All
Got a nose for the news?

Then come join us anytime!
No need to spend money on clothes!
Casual attire welcome!
Donate the money you save on your wardrobe to Free Republic!

3 posted on 01/08/2004 4:20:49 PM PST by Support Free Republic (If Woody had gone straight to the police, this would never have happened!)
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To: ejdrapes
Doesn't matter one whit to me who is in the lead.. my loyalty to the Republican Party or to Bush won't supercede my loyalty to the US...
4 posted on 01/08/2004 4:20:58 PM PST by Zipporah (Write inTancredo in 2004)
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To: ejdrapes
Surprising read from El Rushbo.

Thanks for posting.
5 posted on 01/08/2004 4:21:28 PM PST by Right_in_Virginia
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To: ejdrapes
Rush is definately trying to pull damage control for Pres Bush here.
6 posted on 01/08/2004 4:22:19 PM PST by scarface367
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To: ejdrapes
Bush leads: "Read my lips. No new illegals."
7 posted on 01/08/2004 4:24:33 PM PST by Visalia
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To: Visalia
Would a president be able to survive if he deported all illegals?
8 posted on 01/08/2004 4:28:06 PM PST by Shanty Shaker (I)
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To: ejdrapes
he's doing what he thinks is right about it

I believe that. Seriously, I do. I think Bush is doing what he thinks is right.

9 posted on 01/08/2004 4:32:43 PM PST by Huck (Was that offensive? I hope that wasn't offensive.)
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To: scarface367
Rush is definately trying to pull damage control for Pres Bush here

Well since you are so clairvoyant, maybe you should take over for Ms. Cleo.

This puts immigration into the debate, call your congressman, I'm not stopping you, but have the debate once and for all. This issue can't be swept under the rug and and you can't wiggle your nose and all the illegals are gone. It ain't that easy, and the less you depend on your knee jerk reactions, the more you maybe can understand that this is a difficult and complex issue.

10 posted on 01/08/2004 4:35:07 PM PST by Dane
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To: ejdrapes
"I'm going to admit and acknowledge that there's a political component to here to it,"

How will this prgram make the US safer?

"They said only 2,000 agents are available to review the millions of applicants that might be submitted."

""When this country had problems trying to properly identify a few thousand people, how is it going to do the same with a few million?"
The Washington Times
www.washingtontimes.com

Border authorities fear influx from Bush plan
By Jerry Seper
THE WASHINGTON TIMES
Published January 8, 2004
11 posted on 01/08/2004 4:35:52 PM PST by Kay Soze (W is embracing and adding to LBJ's Great Society Program.)
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To: ejdrapes
So that is the spin. That is how they intend to get all of us back in the fold.

Swing the watch bob to and fro in front of our eyes and say 'see, President Bush is a strong leader, are you not proud of him'. Swinging back and forth, repeating again and again, and hope we become mesmerized and do not see the swarm of illegals crossing our unprotected boarders.
12 posted on 01/08/2004 4:37:24 PM PST by ItsMyVoteDammit
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To: ejdrapes
Thanks for the transcription! This is one of the things I love about Rush Limbaugh. He is constantly asking people to consider, to ponder, to THINK about things.

He's right about President Bush, too. Like it or not, he's a leader. I happen to a voter who likes that leadership. It takes guts to take on an extremely sticky issue like illegal immigration. (If Dubya were to take one of those trendy personality tests, his "type" would probably be called "Gutsy Leader.")

And now, instead of reacting emotionally as I normally would (and as someone who is opposed to illegal immigrants getting drivers licenses and free healthcare that I can't get as an American citizen) at least I'm going to stop and THINK about what President Bush is proposing.
13 posted on 01/08/2004 4:38:08 PM PST by arasina (So there.)
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To: Dane
I'm as right wing as most anybody, but the people who think some great conservative president will someday ship out everyone who doesn't belong is living a dream. There is going to have to be some compromise, and Bush may be trying to get it done before it could be worse.
14 posted on 01/08/2004 4:40:10 PM PST by somemoreequalthanothers
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To: Dane
Bush leads. Look at our extremists swaggering petulantly and threatening to elect a Democrat just because they, who want generally for little government action in society, are angry that Bush didn't announce *more* government enforcement action in society.
15 posted on 01/08/2004 4:41:34 PM PST by Owen
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To: Shanty Shaker
Would a president be able to survive if he deported all illegals?

Would a society survive if all laws are broken?

16 posted on 01/08/2004 4:43:31 PM PST by Visalia
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To: scarface367
Rush is definately trying to pull damage control for Pres Bush here.

No. He evidently got clued in to the substance of Bush's proposal and revamped his initial kneejerk reaction.

17 posted on 01/08/2004 4:43:54 PM PST by cyncooper ("The evil is in plain sight")
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To: ItsMyVoteDammit
On executive issues, Bush uses his executive power, and does what he thinks best. This, arguably, is a legislative issue. There has got to be debate and a consensus in the country to make the borders more airtight. And then there can be a bipartisan effort to do it.

If it is done down party lines, that will forever establish the Democrats as the party of demographic dominance, therefore dominance plain and simple. This move of a Republican president to punt on immigration arguably keeps alive the two-party system. It enables immigrants to vote Republican.

18 posted on 01/08/2004 4:44:55 PM PST by NutCrackerBoy
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To: somemoreequalthanothers
Leadership would also be coming out in favor of really fixing the immigration mess... he could propose these reforms, why not?

Enforcement:
1. Abolish the EOIR, it is a failure of an agency; abolish the BIA that
handles immigration 'appeals' as well. This system is not designed
to deport aliens that deserve to be deported, it's designed to frustrate
the enforcement of immigration law. Michelle Malkin suggests in her
book "Invasion":
"Finally, Attorney General John Ashcroft should abolish the Executive Office
for Immigration Review and the Board of Immigration Appeals and transfer
their functions to existing law enforcement officers within the immigration
bureaucracy. ... Restoring integrity to the immigration process will require
closing the loopholes and black holes into which so many fugitive absconders,
criminal aliens, and unwelcome guests have disappeared. " - Michelle Malkin
INS and Border Patrol Counsels could replace this byzantine process
and administrative removal orders could simply be given administratively.
Replace the agencies with law enforcement agents and lawyers who prosecute
and win deportation cases rather than drag them out.
Use the powers of Article III section 2 to repeal through law
the ability to appeal deportation orders to death (and to the
Supreme Court).
2. Fund the FBI's enforcement of immigration law so that it is a priority for them.
3. Increase funding and manpower of U.S. Border Patrol;
assign US. military troops to help the Border Patrol regain control of our border.
4. Increase funding to enforce laws against employing illegal aliens
5. Create verifiable documentation for use in employment that end documentation
fraud. Set up a national database for document verification so document
fraud is tracked down. Require employers to verify employment and hold
employers responsible for hiring illegal aliens.
6. Pass laws and use verifiable documentation to end immigration benefit fraud.
It is rampant (see the GAO, http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d0266.pdf)
- give incentives and rewards to private citizens who turn in illegal aliens
who are subsequently deported.
" One simple change could put teeth into the law. Employers should be required to
confirm that the Social Security number presented by a worker has in fact been
issued to that worker. A computerized database, much like the nationwide
instant-background check used to verify gun buyers, could handle that job easily.
Such a database already exists, but it is seldom used. " - Jay Bookman
7. Increase alien detention space so that aliens ready for deportation
are held in detention and not released to the streets where they merely
evade deportation.
8. Abolish 245(i) and other provisions of stealth amnesty that have been put
there through law or court rulings. Criminal aliens should be deported
without exceptions. For example, a loophole that gives women citizenship
or LPR status for "spousal abuse" is an open invitation for fraud.
Many men's lives have been destroyed by fraudulent allegations designed by
illegal aliens to gain citizenship. End that loophole in 204(a)(1)(A)(iii)
of the immigration act.

Changing the incentives for illegal aliens and immigration:
1. Granting automatic citizenship to the children of illegals born in
the US must end. Children born here of foreigners should not automatically
become US citizens, unless their parents are *legal* residents of this country.
2. End all federal public assistance to non-citizens except emergency health care
Abolish requirements that hospitals must serve all those, including
illegal aliens, who show up at emergency rooms.
Per federal law (Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act),
no one can be turned away for basic emergency services. Amend it
so labor (and health) services are not a Federal requirement unless the woman
can show legal residency status.
Having a child is not a life-threatening condition.
3. Abolish the adult parents and siblings of immigrants from
getting in on family sponsorship and getting at the head of the line.
End chain migration.
4. Defund federal bilingual education programs.
5. Prohibit affirmative action benefits for non-citizens
19 posted on 01/08/2004 4:46:46 PM PST by WOSG (Freedom, Baby! Yeah!)
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To: somemoreequalthanothers; Huck
Frankly, I don't see what all the fuss is about unless the illegals who are here and don't follow the rules are not rounded up and deported.

Guess I just want to be assured that we're not adding to a 2nd tier of illegals ("legal illegals" and "illegal illegals")
20 posted on 01/08/2004 4:46:48 PM PST by demkicker
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To: ejdrapes
Thanks for posting.

I tend to agree.

21 posted on 01/08/2004 4:47:37 PM PST by onedoug
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To: ejdrapes
Rush wouldn't be doing Bush any favors that he didn't believe in. He doesn't pull punches when he disagrees with the actions of a Republican politician.

Rush also makes a great point that Bush could have just ignored the immigration issue if he wanted to protect his re-election chances.

22 posted on 01/08/2004 4:51:56 PM PST by Tamzee (EARTH FIRST!!! We'll stripmine the other planets later...)
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To: Huck
I believe that. Seriously, I do. I think Bush is doing what he thinks is right.

You're a good-hearted man. BTW, do you believe Bush when he repealed the steel tarriffs, saying they had accomplished their objectives?

Never mind that he repealed them just as Europe was ready to slap trade retributions on Florida and other politically sensitive states.

I really believe that it takes a good-hearted man to look at politicians and see compassion.

I'd like to believe Bush went after Saddam because of his crimes against humanity. But we sent Uzebekistan $500 million last year. Their tyrant has an estimated 6,500 political prisoners. Hundreds are tortured to death every year, sometimes by boiling them alive.

I am more cynical. I don't believe Bush sat down, searched his heart, and came up with this plan.

I think Karl Rove dropped by, brought some graphs showing the rise in Hispanic migration and this plan came out of the meetings.

You've probably noticed that Bush and every other national politician get up and mangle a few sentences in Spanish when it seems expedient.
23 posted on 01/08/2004 4:55:23 PM PST by Belial
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To: WOSG
I agree, but do you remember the "Contract with America" days when the Republican led congress wanted to abolish a couple of agencies? It may be several years and more terrorism before the sheeple start to get in tune with reality.
24 posted on 01/08/2004 4:55:59 PM PST by somemoreequalthanothers
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To: cyncooper
"He evidently got clued in to the substance of Bush's proposal and revamped his initial kneejerk reaction."

What is Bush's position on Chain Migration aka Family Reunification?

Is he leaving that up to the Congress to sort out?
25 posted on 01/08/2004 4:57:02 PM PST by Pubbie (* Bill Owens 2008 *)
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To: NutCrackerBoy
My God, it is working! I would not have believed how many people here are now posting "President Bush is a Leader" "Bush Leads".

Rush knows his audience. I stand corrected for my sarcasm and for my belief we were all thoughtful voters.
26 posted on 01/08/2004 4:59:06 PM PST by ItsMyVoteDammit
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To: scarface367
Nope,

He is spot on.

Bush believes a man is defined by his actions, not his words. This is not a 4 yr old problem, nor is it one he has been working on short term. He has been working on it for 12 yrs. It sticks in his craw.

And what an icky issue to take on. Immigration is a hot potato anyway if you are conservative. But this has runners prying into Homeland Security, Social Security, Welfare Reform, Racism, and Class Warfare.

And still he takes it on! Why?

Well it is a major issue that's why, and when he a sees problem status quo is just not an option.

And he will get my vote for it, here's why.

Despite the hype stories about Social Security fraud, and abuse of the medical system, the majority of this issue can be summed in a brush pile. The one behind my house.

You see it is about a few truckloads worth of 2 yrs. accumulation of yard debris thrown off by my acre of landscaping and 20 trees. All I needed was to have it loaded up into a trailer so I can haul it. No room for machinery, not even a bobcat, so it needed to be done by hand.

I took a long look at it and decided this legal american wasn't going to do it. So I went to the next best legal worker. Some neighborhood kids. Offered them $8 an hour. Well I guess X-Box is a lot more fun, they quit the job afer an hour.

So I turned to a temp labor joint, a call, paperwork and $12.50 an hour later and I had a legal citizen, but none to excited about the work. After working a bit I could see he would not finish in one day. Many breaks, few trips to the trailer. Fired.

I gave up on legal work and went down to the local "corner" where illegals hang out for a job. I told the gentleman what I had to do and offered $8 an hour. Nothing of it. He preferred to wait, turns out the rate that day was going to be $15.00 an hour.

I aggreed he was done in 6 hours. I paid him $100 even for the hard work.

He wasn't here to steal a job from some american. He got a job no american would do properly! Not only that but demand was so high for his services he could bring $15.00 an hour.

It is very prevelant in the Southwest, but really it is nationwide, from Minnesota to well... Texas.

Maybe speeding up naturalization, or reducing regulation, or tort reform, or protectionism, or erecting a 13 foot wall on the Rio Grande might be more palatable options to us right wingers. But politically they will never happen. The Bush proposal is a step to the right, and a step in the right direction.

Don't forget the Reagan Amnesty. Bringing productive, hardworkers with a good value system to the U.S. is a Republican Value! These workers are everything your average Joe Conservative is. Independant, Sweat Equity, Family Values, Meritocracy, God Fearing, and he probably roots for the Cowboys too!

Our party should welcome them!

For Pete's Sake we are the ones hiring them to begin with, they may as well vote republican!

-- lates
-- jrawk
27 posted on 01/08/2004 4:59:36 PM PST by jrawk
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To: somemoreequalthanothers
...people who think some great conservative president will someday ship out everyone who doesn't belong is living a dream

Most people agree the greatest conservative president of the 20th Century was Ronald Reagan. In 1986, he and the Congress granted the first blanket amnesty to illegal aliens in American history. The same people who are on FR these days spewing vitriol at President Bush claim to love President Reagan. But I believe that had there been an FR forum in 1986, these same people would be spewing their bile at President Reagan.

28 posted on 01/08/2004 5:02:12 PM PST by Wolfstar (George W. Bush the 1st truly great world leader of the 21st Century)
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To: Huck

Agreed. As Rush points out, there is no fiat here, no executive order, no blanket pardons as Clinton would do. And he is right, too, in the caricature of Clinton being all talk and no action. But it really has nothing to do with Clinton, except in the minds of the left-wing. It's all in looking to fix a serious problem in the best interests of the nation.

29 posted on 01/08/2004 5:03:03 PM PST by Cultural Jihad
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To: jrawk
So, your experience can be summed up thus (ignoring the ethnicities of the involved workers, since they don't matter):

The $8/hour worker wouldn't do it.

The $12.50/hour worker wouldn't do it.

But the $15/hour worker would.

Hmmm.......
30 posted on 01/08/2004 5:05:08 PM PST by brianl703
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To: ItsMyVoteDammit
Don't be so pedantic. The President leads, but he is not empowered to write laws. If you think illegal immigration is an important issue, then contact your representatives and let them know how you feel.
31 posted on 01/08/2004 5:05:32 PM PST by Cultural Jihad
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To: Belial
"I think Karl Rove dropped by, brought some graphs showing the rise in Hispanic migration and this plan came out of the meetings. " -- Belial

Really, that sums up Bush's experience with this issue? Rove came up with it. All that time in Texas, and he never realized how important Mexican Citizens really are to the American Economy? You don't think he has actually been thinking about this for a little longer than a week? Like the last 12 years?

He really isn't going far enough in my opinion. Naturalize them! The majority share our values. They are Hardworking, sweat equity, God fearing, meritocracy, family values folks.

They may as well Vote Republican, Republicans are the ones hiring them anyway.

If we kick them out, entire business sectors will suffer dearly.

-- lates
-- jrawk
32 posted on 01/08/2004 5:07:19 PM PST by jrawk
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To: Visalia
Hyperbole. No one is advocating the breaking of laws, except perhaps those who cheer on border vigilantes when they commit felonies against those they suspect of having committed misdemeanors.
33 posted on 01/08/2004 5:07:44 PM PST by Cultural Jihad
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To: Belial
You've probably noticed that Bush and every other national politician get up and mangle a few sentences in Spanish when it seems expedient.

If that's what you've noticed, your entire post is suspect.

Bush speaks fluent, almost flawless, Spanish. And has, for nearly 20 years.

You're a cynic about Bush, so you'll swell up over anything he says or does.

34 posted on 01/08/2004 5:08:58 PM PST by sinkspur (Adopt a shelter dog or cat! You'll save one life, and maybe two!)
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To: Belial
Belial, without agreeing or disagreeing with any of your presented facts, I could still say I think that President Bush is doing what he believes is right. I think he may have made his mistake in enacting the tariffs. He may have made some face-saving statements later, I don't know. I don't dispute it.

As for the war, I believe that the President is happy to bring down a brutal dictator, at least under certain circumstances. I mean, if it was as easy as just picking a dictator and going to war, then we could have it over with very quickly. A president with a 4 year term, who will have to campaign to get re-elected, with a House and a Senate and a hostile press to contend with has to set priorities. You can't do it all. Even if you're re-elected, you will not do it all in 8 years.

So why the heck do you think President Bush decided to go to war, along with Britain, Australia, Spain, and some other countries?

35 posted on 01/08/2004 5:10:04 PM PST by Huck (Was that offensive? I hope that wasn't offensive.)
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To: ItsMyVoteDammit
I stand corrected for my sarcasm and for my belief we were all thoughtful voters.

Ever think your judgment might be clouded?

That's my belief.

36 posted on 01/08/2004 5:10:42 PM PST by sinkspur (Adopt a shelter dog or cat! You'll save one life, and maybe two!)
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To: Huck
"I believe that. Seriously, I do. I think Bush is doing what he thinks is right."

I too believe that the President is doing what he thinks is right. From what I understand, he has advocated this policy position since his days as governor of Texas!

[NOTE: While I have my areas of expertise, immigration is not one of them. For this reason, I plan to follow the lead of those I trust and know to be informed on this issue, to include President Bush (former governor of Texas), Newt Gingrich (has conducted much research on the subject), and Rudy Guilliani (who worked on this issue under Reagan). And yes, Gingrich and Guilliani support the President's policy recommendations!]
37 posted on 01/08/2004 5:10:46 PM PST by DrDeb
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To: Zipporah
Goody...then go vote for Dean, or Clark. Voting for a fringe candidate, or staying home, is the same as voting Dem !
38 posted on 01/08/2004 5:11:20 PM PST by nopardons
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To: Wolfstar
Of course you're right. Left vs Right is a marathon, not a sprint. We shouldn't be so quick to turn on our own.
39 posted on 01/08/2004 5:11:33 PM PST by somemoreequalthanothers
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To: sinkspur
Bush speaks fluent, almost flawless, Spanish. And has, for nearly 20 years.

I think you are right about almost everything...but Bush does not speak fluent Spanish. I've heard him attempt to speak Spanish on a number of occaisons. He has trouble making it through the simplest slogans.
40 posted on 01/08/2004 5:11:35 PM PST by Belial
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To: ItsMyVoteDammit
Leaders rule, and ideologues drool! ;-)
41 posted on 01/08/2004 5:12:17 PM PST by Cultural Jihad
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Good article by Rush. Here's some more to support some of his analysis:

Senate majority leader confident immigration reform will be approved

42 posted on 01/08/2004 5:12:35 PM PST by Diddle E. Squat (www.firethebcs.com, www.weneedaplayoff.com, www.firemackbrown.com)
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To: Zipporah
Oh, and Tancredo has said, repeatedly, that NO ONE should write his name in and that he doesn't want to be president, which is a damned good thing, since he's a one issue person, who couldn't handle the job of president anyway.
43 posted on 01/08/2004 5:13:04 PM PST by nopardons
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To: Shanty Shaker
NO !
44 posted on 01/08/2004 5:13:46 PM PST by nopardons
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To: jrawk
Im not looking to start trouble here, but it seems to me that there are some posters who will find fault with every thing Bush does. I agree with Rush-like it or not, this IS leadership. Bill Clinton wouldnt go near an issue unless the polls told him to. I have to admit however, Im pleased to see that there hasnt been a lot of "Bush didnt do exactly what I want, so I wont vote for him" petulance. Tough issue, it reqiures soul searching and thought. If we can get past the vitriol, Im sure we can come up with a compromise. I would submit that getting rid of the "anchor baby" clause would go a long way to compromise..
45 posted on 01/08/2004 5:14:04 PM PST by cardinal4 (Hillary and Clark rhymes with Ft Marcy park...)
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To: Huck
So why the heck do you think President Bush decided to go to war, along with Britain, Australia, Spain, and some other countries?

I think Bush believes the best way to guarantee peace in the Mideast is by establishing zones of influence. Taking out Saddam was a logical place to start.
46 posted on 01/08/2004 5:14:19 PM PST by Belial
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To: Cultural Jihad
No one is advocating the breaking of laws...

Who is "No one"??? Does this include the illegals? Vicente Fox???

47 posted on 01/08/2004 5:15:18 PM PST by Visalia
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To: Belial
...but Bush does not speak fluent Spanish. I've heard him attempt to speak Spanish on a number of occaisons. He has trouble making it through the simplest slogans.

Well, I'll trust some of my Hispanic friends who tell me differently.

48 posted on 01/08/2004 5:15:44 PM PST by sinkspur (Adopt a shelter dog or cat! You'll save one life, and maybe two!)
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To: Cultural Jihad
Rush did a good job with the Clinton comparison. Clever, actually. A very good point as far as the use of Presidential power goes. To tell you the truth, I don't know yet what my opinion is. I am not sure I agree with the President. But I think I know what principle he is operating under on this question. I think he wants these people to be able to work here legally. I have no idea what he wants to do about the borders. I know he made some remarks, but I honestly don't recall what he said about it, and my job has me very busy, so I am not up to date. I've got Brit Hume taped, which I'll get to later. But I think he's trying to facilitate making them legal workers.
49 posted on 01/08/2004 5:16:19 PM PST by Huck (Was that offensive? I hope that wasn't offensive.)
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To: nopardons
Perhaps Tancredo has a political interest in seeing that illegal immigration remains a big problem. I personally worry about the health and safety of these one-issue ideologues who have so tightly wrapped up their whole identity and sense of self-worth and purpose in life to illegal immigration when there are no more illegal aliens in the country.
50 posted on 01/08/2004 5:16:50 PM PST by Cultural Jihad
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