[Tijeras_Slim]

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[MattinNJ]

1) To be logically consistent, if the Mexicans assert a claim to the SW U.S based on it being theirs first, they would then haveto give it back to Spain

2) The Mexicans routinely murder Guatemalans, Costa Ricans, etc... who cross their southern border. Every contractor I talk to who uses these guys would tell you they would rather have Guatemalans work for them then Mexicans.

[GrandEagle]

explain why relations between the nations are sometimes so tense.
come on then... Try and take it back.

[navyblue]

So I guess this is the liberal media's beginning of the psychological brainwashing of the American public.

Our people simply have to understand that this land really belongs to them and we are illegally occupying it!

Ah yes! Let the brainwashing begin!

[FormerLib]

Now, that civilization is taking another turn. More than half of the 20 million Mexicans north of the border live on the land that once was theirs. Some 8.5 million live in California — a quarter of the population. Nearly half the people of New Mexico have roots in old Mexico. Mexico is, in a sense, slowly reoccupying its former property.

Perhaps the US better rethink about how the Albanians are attempting to steal Kosovo from Serbia.

Although I certainly wouldn't have any object to handing southern California to Mexico, so long as they take San Francisco in the deal!

[BeerSwillr]

Nine days later, prospectors struck gold in California.

As if to say what exactly? That mexicans would have discovered the gold? Ha.

What was the last thing Jesus said to the mexicans?

Name all your kids after me and don't do anything until I get back.

[jeremiah]

Let's see, the Spanish stole the land from the Indians, we took it from them, and we are the usurpers? Methinks the only problem with Mexico, is they are ethnically cleansing their country. Time to put up a wall, even if it is only electronic, and stop the flow North. Deport illegals by fining employers huge amounts when caught, and emptying our jails of those caught breaking the law, straight into Mexico. They will quit coming, when they can no longer get free medical and schooling, and can no longer work............problem solved. If we then need workers(after loosening laws to allow children to work again, and ridding ourselves of minimum wage laws), we can allow them in as need be. Then again, I am not running for election, and am free to do what is right, not having to worry about kissing a**es. Too bad being a leader, and doing what is right, is only possible if you have no power.

[KantianBurke]

"In the United States, almost no one remembers the war that Americans fought against Mexico more than 150 years ago."

Sums up why this country works and their country wallows in the 3rd world. We move ahead and create. They bitch and moan about a past that's almost 2 centuries old.

[Spok]

If the Mexicans are hostile foreign nationals nursing a 150 year old grudge, perhaps we should be a little more circumspect about inviting them into our living rooms...hmmmm?

[the gillman@blacklagoon.com]

...To realize that the border was fixed by war and controlled by the victors is to understand...

That the Mexicans must have won, because we certainly have no control over the border.

[gubamyster]

ping

[joesnuffy]

The earth is the Lord's and the fullness thereof...they only thing anyone is entitled to is what God gives them and what He lets them keep....

Everyone tries to use any emotional appeal they can faulty logic force and lies notwithstanding to get what they want or steal what they want and then try to keep it...by those same means..

Mexicans got nothing coming...but mean to take everything they can get their hands on...
Worst part is ..they have allies in CONUS willing to help them....for a price....

[WackyKat]

Nearly half the people of New Mexico have roots in old Mexico. Mexico is, in a sense, slowly reoccupying its former property. "History extracts its costs with the passage of time," said Jesús Velasco Márquez, a professor who has long studied the war. "We are the biggest minority in the United States, and particularly in the territory that once was ours."

Exactly. An aggressive Mexican irredentist movement is beginning to gain momentum

And it will get far worse

[ZULU]

"In the United States, almost no one remembers the war that Americans fought against Mexico more than 150 years ago."

In the United States, hardly anyone remembers anything historical. Ask some kids when the Declaration of Independence was signed, or who Richard Cheney is.

"In Mexico, almost no one has forgotten."


REALLY??? I doubt it. Probably only a handful of La Raza types. Mexico has had many more serious problems than the loss of a vast wilderness, relatively unihabited by anyone except indians, a century and a half ago.


"The war cut this country in two, and "the wound never really healed," said Miguel Soto, a Mexico City historian."

How melodramatic. But what do you expect from a Mexican historian. Go ask the average Mexican mestizo what they think of the central government in Mexico. Then ask him about the Mexican War. He'll probably bubble over with criticism and accusations about the former and look you blankly in the eye about the other.

" It took less than two years, and ended with the gringos seizing half of Mexico, taking the land that became America's Wild West: California, Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, Nevada, Utah and beyond."

As I said, aside from a few small areas in California, Santa Fe, and a small part of Texas, there simply were very few Mexican actually living in those territories. As a matter of fact, the Mexican government actually INVITED Anglo settlers into Texas for the explicit purpose of protecting Mexican living in northern Mexico from sale raids by Plains tribes like the Commanches, and the Apaches - which were mainly retalitory as the Mexicans did their own share of slave raiding and buying of young Indian captives.

"In Mexico, they call this "the Mutilation." That may help explain why relations between the nations are sometimes so tense."

Guess they forgot how we helped get the French out of their country after the Civil War. The main "mutilation" in Mexico has been purpetrated by a succesion of gangster regimes against the Mexican peasants.

"As President Bush prepares to fly down to Mexico from Texas, where the war began back in 1846, the debate here over how to relate to the United States is heating up once again."


Should read: "As President Jorge Bush prepares to fly down to Mexico to kiss Vicente Fox's ring in gratitude for all the all "help" (sarcasm) Mexico gave us in the U.N. recently, by opening our arms to an army of social destitutes Mexico created and is unwilling to support.

"The question of the day is the more than 20 million Mexicans who now live in the United States."

20 Million?? Last I heard it was 8 to 12 Million. Do I hear 50 million??


"To realize that the border was fixed by war and controlled by the victors is to understand why some Mexicans may not love the 21st-century American colossus."

????????????? Name a national border that was established by a card game - go on, I DARE YOU.

"Yet they adore the old American ideals of freedom, equality and boundless opportunity, and they keep voting, by the millions, with their feet."


I can't balme people for wanting to steal what is better. But I can blame people like Bush for not wanting to stop them. Better then should stay at home and correct their own government and we should help them. Better yet, ANNEX MEXICO. Anglicize it and make it well. Its a sick country. Their people would be better off. (So would we. They have lots of oil.)

"In "a relationship of love and of hatred," as Mr. Soto says, bitter memories sometimes surface like old shrapnel under the skin."

This guy is too much. Is he a history teacher or a drama teacher??

"Fragments of the old war stand in the slanting morning sunlight at an old convent here in Mexico City, a sanctuary seized by invading American troops in 1847, now the National Museum of Interventions, which chronicles the struggle."

Millions of people they can't employ, feed or support and they build an entire museum to a lost war from a century and a half ago. Brilliant!!!

"The war between Mexico and the United States has a different meaning for Mexicans and Americans," said the museum's director, Alfredo Hernández Murillo. "For Americans, it's one more step in the expansion that began when the United States was created. For Mexicans, the war meant we lost half the nation. It was very damaging, and not just because the land was lost."


This guy gets more and more maudlin. Like I said, MOST of what we took was not occupied or used. At the time it was a wasteland and wilderness which was unexploited. The average Mexican non-historian today probably has a lot more problems to think about than Buena Vista and Molino Del Rey.
But, what the heck, when your economy is collapsing, find some fall guy to take the heat. It worked before with other corrupt governments, why not Mexico's?


"It's a symbol of Mexico's weakness throughout history in confronting the United States. For Mexicans, it's still a shock sometimes to cross the border and see the Spanish names of the places we lost."

A symbol of Mexico's weakness is the fact that millions of its sons and daughters have to flee their native country just to get enough money to buy breakfast.

"Those places have names like Los Angeles, San Francisco, San Diego, Santa Fe, El Paso, San Antonio; the list is long."

Yeah, yeah, and New Orleans, Detroit, etc. Should we give that land back to France? How about Staten Island? Should we give it back ot the Netherlands??

"The war killed 13,780 Americans, and perhaps 50,000 or more Mexicans — no one knows the true number."

More Mexicans probably died in the Mexican War from Santa Ana's inadequate or non-existant Medical corps and insane marching than from Yankee bullets.

"It was the first American war led by commanders from West Point. These were men like Ulysses S. Grant and William Tecumseh Sherman, Robert E. Lee and Jefferson Davis. A little more than a decade later, Grant and Sherman battled Lee and Davis in the Civil War."

So what has this got to do with the discussion??

"Historians are still fighting over how and why the battles of the Mexican War began. Some say it was Mexico's fault for trying to stop the secession of what was then (and to some, still is) the Republic of Texas. Some say it was an imperial land grab by the president of the United States."

It was due to many factors, among them these. Not all the people at the Alamo were Americans. A lot of Tejanos hated Santa Ana, as well as a lot of Mexicans and Mexican Indians. He was a bloodthirsty megalomaniac.

"President James K. Polk did confide to his diary that the aim of the war was "to acquire for the United States — California, New Mexico and perhaps some other of the northern provinces of Mexico." When it was won, in February 1848, he wrote, "There will be added to the United States an immense empire, the value of which 20 years hence it would be difficult to calculate." Nine days later, prospectors struck gold in California."

He tried to buy the southwest from Mexico. I believe the Americans actually DID pay Mexico for the Southwest after the war.

"It shows Gen. Winfield Scott riding into Mexico City's national square — "the halls of Montezuma," in the words of the Marine Corps Hymn — to seize power and raise the flag. He had followed the same invasion route as the 16th-century Spanish conquerors of Mexico. The American occupation lasted 11 months."

And I bet it was the most secure, most sanitary 11 months in Mexico City's history.

"Many of the 75,000 Mexicans living in the newly conquered American West lost their rights to own land and live as they pleased. It was well into the 20th century before much of the land was settled and civilized."

Sad, but true. But then, we have changed a lot haven't we in 150 years?

"Now, that civilization is taking another turn. More than half of the 20 million Mexicans north of the border live on the land that once was theirs. Some 8.5 million live in California — a quarter of the population. Nearly half the people of New Mexico have roots in old Mexico. Mexico is, in a sense, slowly reoccupying its former property."

Onlyu bceause we have people like Bush and his predecessors in the White House. Where is that guy Polk when you REALLY need him??

"History extracts its costs with the passage of time," said Jesús Velasco Márquez, a professor who has long studied the war. "We are the biggest minority in the United States, and particularly in the territory that once was ours."

So?? America is a nation of minorities. Consider yourselves lucky to be here.

The New York Times is really a rube paper. They INVITE criticism by their idiotic articles. Now I understand why Ann Cooulter has such a field day with them.

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[KellyAdmirer]

There are so many easy solutions to this whole Mexican problem - fortify the border, beef up the INS dramatically, outlaw any business using more than a few illegals - but nothing productive ever gets done.

Polk is probably the least-appreciated US President, btw. He did more for the US than many others combined.

[jpl]

I'm so sick and tired of pundits who try to make it seem as though America is the only country on the face of the earth founded in war. Every single national border that exists on the face of the earth was at least partially formed in bloodshed.

[MissAmericanPie]

"In the United States, almost no one remembers the war that Americans fought against Mexico more than 150 years ago"

I may not remember that, but I do remember mexicans celebrating 9-11 in towns across the nation, selling Ben Laden T-shirts and masks whipped out in an instant, already manufactured and awaiting the day for their demand.

I remember the American flag being torn down at a soccor game in California and the riot that insued of the mexican humilation of defeat.

I remember members of La Raza attacking vets in their sixties and seventies on Memorial Day outside a military cemetary. I remember all that.

[pikachu]

Where are the articles about the Toltecs, Aztecs, and the like who are still resentful about all the Spanish descendants and what they have done since Cortez showed up?

[Red Boots]

Too many innaccuracies to name, but I will point out a least one:

Mexician Land and water rights and property titles WERE recognized and upheld by the US courts, as part of the treaty settling the war, and, in fact, continue to be upheld by US courts to this very day. A case was recently settled in SE Colorado reaffirming the rights of the decendants of Mexican settlers to gather wood and water on private ranch land. They claim was based on their historical use of the land, dating from the Mexican Occupation. They won. It's not an isolated incident; many such claims have been recognized throughout the SW.

Quite a bit of the territories were PURCHASED by the US as part of a willing exchange with Mexico. All the territory ceded as a result of the War was paid for by the US, to the tune of $15 million, way more than it was worth at the time, being largely unsettled and barren. Some later territory was bought outright; like the GAdsen Purchase of Arizona, which came well after the war. How dare they say we took it ??

That being said, it's not really going to matter as possession is 9/10 of the law, and our gubmint is not going to stop it, right or wrong.