Ask the Imam: It is permissible to lie when taking the oath of allegiance to the United States

Islamic Q & A on-line ^ | 4/25/03 | Mufti Ebrahim Desai

[BadAndy]

Kwanza is silly but mostly harmless. Unlike Islam the supporters of Kwanza don't DEMAND that all those who refuse to celebrate it be murdered.
Islam is also unlike most religions in that there are no miracles associated with it to suggest a supernatural being. Mohammed's "revlations" were accepted at face value with nothing to support them.

[Aquinasfan]

This is essentially the same teaching found in the Bible.

Yes, but this isn't. "Hence, keeping this in mind if one is forced to sign the above in order to become a citizen or the only way of attaining citizenship is by acknowledging the above, then one may sign it with the intention that Shari’ah and Deen will always be his yardstick."

Sharia law is Mohammedan law and is not the same thing as natural law. My understanding is that, under Sharia law, Jews and Christians are treated as dhimmini (second class citizens whose freedom of worship is severely restricted) and members of other religions are treated even worse.

[Aquinasfan]

the obvious strategy is to make a temporary false peace and lie low until the decadent West becomes distracted by MTV or Britney Spears' latest nuptial scandal.

Yes. Their timing was off when they pulled 9/11. They should have done it under Clinton. They also bit off more than they can chew when they attacked the US. They should have been satisfied with getting away with their violence in Nigeria, Chad, the Sudan, Ethiopia, Israel, Yugoslavia, Chechnya, India, Thailand and the Philipines.

[Aquinasfan]

If you don't believe me, LOOK IT UP.

To quote my co-worker: "Don't show me, I don't want to know."

[Lessismore]

Most governments historically are founded on theft taxes.

[Looking for Diogenes]

Hence, keeping this in mind if one is forced to sign the above in order to become a citizen or the only way of attaining citizenship is by acknowledging the above, then one may sign it with the intention that Shari?ah and Deen will always be his yardstick and that he will never sacrifice any of the teachings of Deen.

I'm not sure who or what "Deen" is, but overall that sounds just about like what (former) Justice Roy Moore believes: he'll obey the Constitution and laws of the country so long as they do not interfere with his religious beliefs. In fact most religious persons would place their obedience to their religion above their obedience to the government.

[RobbyS]

Sharia law is Mohammedan law and is not the same thing as natural law. My understanding is that, under Sharia law, Jews and Christians are treated as dhimmini (second class citizens whose freedom of worship is severely restricted) and members of other religions are treated even worse.>/i>

One reason why Israel drives some of them them mad. They believe it is against the will of God that Jews should govern Muslims.

[RobbyS]

The theu that developed in England was that taxes were voluntary donations of the citizenry to the Crown, the idea that underlay our slogan "No taxation without representations."

[Aquinasfan]

In fact most religious persons would place their obedience to their religion above their obedience to the government.

See #42.

[AmericanVictory]

Notice how our pundits and talking heads fail to bring this point up.

[Looking for Diogenes]

How does natural law fit into this discussion? The imam seems to be sayng that the questioner may take an oath to obey the U.S. Constitution and laws, reserving the caveat that the law of Allah is supreme. Now I certainly don't agree with the principles of Islam, but many Christians think that God's law is supreme and would feel justified in breaking a government law if it directly contradicted a biblical commandment. The fact that Muslims consider Jews and Christians to be unequal to themselves is a different issue.

[Aquinasfan]

Good old Mufti Ebrahim Desai. He's currently issuing fatwas in South Africa.

Yeah. What a guy.

"He studied the principles of issuing Fatwas for two years in Dabhel under Mufti Ahmad Khanpuri Saheb, a renown and leading Scholar in India, and another year under the grand Mufti of India,"

What the world needs now is more fatwa issuers.

[RobbyS]

Muslims do not recognize that the state has rights of its own as a natural institution. This is like a Bishop claiming that canon law overrides the United States Constitution.

[Looking for Diogenes]

This is like a Bishop claiming that canon law overrides the United States Constitution.

Bad example. For decades the bishops chose to ignore civil laws regarding child molsters and handle the offenders according to canon laws. Only last year Cardinal Mahoney refused to hand over subpoenaed documents, citing pastoral privilege.

[Aquinasfan]

How does natural law fit into this discussion?

The imam is saying that the person who asked the question should break his vow to obey the civil law if the civil law contradicts Sharia law. Sharia law is not comparable to the natural law, which is the basis of civil law for Christians and the basis of civil law in our country. Sharia law is more analogous to Levitical law, a perverse Levitical law. One of the aspects of Sharia law that is inimical to our form of government is the fact that Jews and Christians are to be "tolerated" as long as they pay a special, punitive tax and refrain from public religious displays. Members of other religions are treated more harshly. Under Sharia law, Mohammedan converts to Christianity are to be executed.

Now how can anyone who believes that Sharia law should supersede American law take an oath of allegiance to uphold the Constitution of the United States, which prohibits the establishment of a State religion and authorizes free exercise of religion?

The imam seems to be sayng that the questioner may take an oath to obey the U.S. Constitution and laws, reserving the caveat that the law of Allah is supreme. Now I certainly don't agree with the principles of Islam, but many Christians think that God's law is supreme and would feel justified in breaking a government law if it directly contradicted a biblical commandment. The fact that Muslims consider Jews and Christians to be unequal to themselves is a different issue.

No, that's Sharia law. When you think "Sharia law," think Saudi Arabia or the Taliban. Or you can do a search and see what fun the Mohammedans are having in Nigeria in attempting to impose Sharia law on the Christians there.

Mohammedanism and religious tolerance are simply inimical. There's a reason why there are no democratic Islamic countries. Islam is fundamentally linked to the State, and the world is divided between the "world of peace" (the Mohammedan world) and the "world of war" (the non-Mohammedan world).

[RobbyS]

Canon law always tries to mesh with the civil law. But as far as the perverts were concerned, the cops were not exactly eager to
jump into that fight. Both by custom and law the churches are privileged communities in our society.

[Looking for Diogenes]

But as far as the perverts were concerned, the cops were not exactly eager to jump into that fight.

I don't know about the ancient history, but in recent decades the bishops did everything they could to keep criminal molestation cases from coming to the attention of the police and prosecutors.

Both by custom and law the churches are privileged communities in our society.

Other than the secrecy of the confession I'm not aware of any privileges churches have regarding criminal law.

[FreedomCalls]

And of course:

If during the performing Wadu one passes gas should he repeat the wadu or continue it?

[FreedomCalls]

And we are all just on edge to hear the Imam's answer to this one:

the custom of Shiites using their middle finger to swipe their anus after using the toilet, is it only applicable to Shiites or for all the Muslims.Are there any hadithes regarding this ?

[Sloth]

This is essentially the same teaching found in the Bible.

Correct. In other words, obey your government unless doing so will force you to sin. Nothing wrong with that (assuming that one has a decent idea of what sin is -- a more troubling question w/ regard to Islam).