Ask the Imam: It is permissible to lie when taking the oath of allegiance to the United States

Islamic Q & A on-line ^ | 4/25/03 | Mufti Ebrahim Desai

[Kozak]

This is essentially the same teaching found in the Bible.

No it's not. " Render unto Caesar those thngs which are Caesars, and unto God which are God"s". DOES NOT say it's okay to lie to deceive Caesar. A Christian is expected to be true to his faith, without misleading or deception.

[RobbyS]

The bishops were basically left alone to do as they pleased. In the Protestant town I grew up in, the police treated disputes pretty much as they treated domestic disputes.

[Looking for Diogenes]

The bishops were basically left alone to do as they pleased. In the Protestant town I grew up in, the police treated disputes pretty much as they treated domestic disputes.

I'm not sure of the circumstances you are describing. If bishops handled the punishment of criminals within their church without reference to the criminal justice system then that confirms what I was saying.

[RobbyS]

Ley one thing be clear. Sodomy was the crime committed by most of these priests. And statutory rape. Ask yourself why the principals did not bring these to the attention of the police.

[Looking for Diogenes]

Ask yourself why the principals did not bring these to the attention of the police.

My guess is that the bishops didn't hand their employees, the priests, over to the police because they didn't want a scandal to harm the reputation of the church. And they felt they could handle the problem appropriately on their own. If so, they miscalculated badly on both counts.

[Aquinasfan]

And we are all just on edge to hear the Imam's answer to this one

Wow.

[Aquinasfan]

No it's not. " Render unto Caesar those thngs which are Caesars, and unto God which are God"s". DOES NOT say it's okay to lie to deceive Caesar. A Christian is expected to be true to his faith, without misleading or deception.

This bears repeating.

[Aquinasfan]

If during the performing Wadu one passes gas should he repeat the wadu or continue it?

You gotta repeat the wadu...

I liked the way the Mufti signed his response:

Mufti Ebrahim Desai
FATWA DEPT.

[ought-six]

"Yes but it doesn't count as adultery since it's with an animal and that's fine as long as it is not an unclean animal like a dog or hog."

But sheep and goats are fair game.

[ought-six]

"It has been suggested that Muhammad(P) mixed Biblical stories and Jewish myths of the Tower of Babel, the story of Esther and Moses into a single confused account when composing the Qur'an."

Mohammad must have been smoking some bad sh!t.

[wai-ming]

It is a fundamental Jewish teaching that in ANY situation, ANY of the Biblical laws can be broken in order to SAVE a life

Very interesting. So, one could commit adultery in order to save a life?

I can just hear the excuses now: "But your honor, I was dying to have sex."

[FITZ]

Fact: Islam is an enemy ideology opposed to the Constitution of the United States. This is obvious to any rational observer.

Exactly. I doubt an iman exists who would tell a Muslim a different answer. Islamics believe only in Sharia government, the cannot by definition of what it means to be a Muslim -- believe in or defend the US Constitution. The US Constitution is contrary to everything they believe in.

[FITZ]

In fact most religious persons would place their obedience to their religion above their obedience to the government.

That may be true, the Constitution was written by Christian men and so is compatible with religions like Christianity but isn't compatible with Islam. The laws of Saudi Arabia obviously are compatible with Islam but not with Christianity.

[HoustonCurmudgeon]

In dealing with Arabs for 30 years I have learned that they are not bothered by a lie that advances their aims. Nothing is considered untrue if it keeps you from losing face or gets you what you want.

I have not found this to be as true with non Arab musilims.

[NeoCaveman]

But sheep and goats are fair game.

Of course.

[rageaholic]

Glad others are starting to see the light. When will the US Government recognize that muslim immigration is an invasion by an enemy organization dedicated to the overthrow of the United States Constituion?

Indeed waves of Muslim immigration are part of a world invasion plan, as surely spelled out in the Koran and Haddith as Hitler's plans were spelled out in Mein Kampf.

The INS is a co-conspirator.

[FITZ]

I think it's obvious by what keeps happening to India --- the Hindus tried to co-exist but the Muslims demand a separate country so they can have Sharia law. First Pakistan, then Bangledesh, and it's never enough.

[Restorer]

In other words, obey your government unless doing so will force you to sin. Nothing wrong with that (assuming that one has a decent idea of what sin is -- a more troubling question w/ regard to Islam).

Bump. It's the application, not the principle, that's the problem.

[patriot_wes]

Ask the Imam: "It is permissible to lie when taking the oath of allegiance to the United States?"

Ask John McBryde - federal judges and prosecutors do it all the time!

[Looking for Diogenes]

the Constitution was written by Christian men and so is compatible with religions like Christianity

And if the were a constitutional amendment or a law that was antithetical to Christians, is their highest allegiance to the Constitution or to their religion? That isn't just a hypothetical issue. Quakers are Christians (more or less) and they struggled a long time for accomodation of their pacifist principles.