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Cardinal favours condoms to stop AIDS (leading candidates to succeed Pope John Paul)
The Guardian via SMH ^
| January 14, 2004
| John Hooper in Rome and Andrew Osborn in Brussels
Posted on 01/13/2004 6:30:40 AM PST by dead
click here to read article
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To: Alberta's Child
I say moron
21
posted on
01/13/2004 9:44:04 AM PST
by
pctech
To: johnb2004
All heresy begins below the belt. It comes from thinking with the little head...
To: sinkspur
I await a reply form the vatican. I doubt they will agree with the dissenters. I have heard for years that the vatican will allow x or y and so go and do it now.
These issues did not just arise. If there is some problem with tribes in Africa and married men imposing their will on their wives than the authorities need to step in and change that culture.
Condoms are not the answer.
To: sinkspur
You offer a hobson's choice. I reject that logic. Condoms are hardly the answer to these issues.
To: sinkspur
You offer a hobson's choice. I reject that logic. Condoms are hardly the answer to these issues.
To: johnb2004
What would you recommend that married couples do when one is HIV+ and one isn't?
To: Alberta's Child; pctech
Either the article is wrong, or the cardinal is a f#cking moron -- the Sixth Commandment is as follows: "Thou shalt not commit adultery." I vote moron.
Or a third choice - the man is clearly a Protestant. I vote Protestant (but I reserve the right to vote moron at a later time).
To: dead
It always seems to be the Belgians.
28
posted on
01/13/2004 10:04:01 AM PST
by
Desdemona
(Kempis' Imitation of Christ online! http://www.leaderu.com/cyber/books/imitation/imitation.html)
To: johnb2004
If there is some problem with tribes in Africa and married men imposing their will on their wives than the authorities need to step in and change that culture. Change a culture? You're asking women to risk death while they wait for authorities, dominated by men, to change a culture?
You offer a hobson's choice. I reject that logic. Condoms are hardly the answer to these issues
Apparently, you have no answer to this "hobson's choice." It's a reality, john, and it is highly likely that priests on the ground are telling these women to use condoms in order to save their lives!
Would Christ condemn these women to death?
29
posted on
01/13/2004 10:05:05 AM PST
by
sinkspur
(Adopt a shelter dog or cat! You'll save one life, and maybe two!)
To: Stone Mountain
I would hope they would give assent of the heart and mind to all that the Church of Christ teaches. I would hope they would accept all that God gives them. I would hope that they follow a well formed conscience that does not place themselves above the Church. I would hope they follow Christ and not pop culture or lax dissobedient trendy vicars.
I would hope they believe there exists an eternal Truth.
To: johnb2004
I would hope they would give assent of the heart and mind to all that the Church of Christ teaches. I would hope they would accept all that God gives them. I would hope that they follow a well formed conscience that does not place themselves above the Church. I would hope they follow Christ and not pop culture or lax dissobedient trendy vicars. This is so much nonsense to a woman who is expected to be submissive to her husband every time he asks for sex, and she knows he has the AIDS virus. Oh, and she has four other children she has to care for, and stay alive for.
And she can't use a condom to save her life?
31
posted on
01/13/2004 10:09:30 AM PST
by
sinkspur
(Adopt a shelter dog or cat! You'll save one life, and maybe two!)
To: johnb2004
John, you have no answer for this woman, do you? (Platitudes are not an answer).
32
posted on
01/13/2004 10:11:24 AM PST
by
sinkspur
(Adopt a shelter dog or cat! You'll save one life, and maybe two!)
To: sinkspur
I restate that one may never commit an intrinsically evil act. Do you agree?
What priests tell people is not the issue. Many priests today are hardly loyal to their faith. Pick up a paper.
Would Christ condemn these women to death?
I do not know that condoms bring or save life. I would ask you a question. Would Christ allow an airplane to fall out of the sky and kill all? Would Christ allow a baby to be born with no arms?
To: sinkspur
You think a spouse has to expose themselves to the risk of death in order to fulfill the marital relationship? In some cases, these women HAVE NO CHOICE. What incredible foolishness. Married couples in which one spouse is HIV+ should live continently. Don't tell me continence is impossible. Lack of sex has never killed anyone.
If you're telling me the HIV- wives are willing to be continent, but their husbands are forcing themselves on them, then the wives should leave. For an HIV+ man to force his wife to have relations constitutes serious spousal abuse, with or without a condom.
34
posted on
01/13/2004 10:12:19 AM PST
by
Campion
To: sinkspur
This is so much nonsense to a woman who is expected to be submissive to her husband every time he asks for sex That's not Catholic teaching. I'd hope you know that. Reasonable requests for marital relations must be honored; "I'm HIV+ and I gotta get some, so I'll wear a rubber and lesson your risk of getting a fatal disease a little bit" is not a reasonable request.
If you're saying it's a cultural thing, then I'd tell you that Christians sometimes need to rise above their culture.
35
posted on
01/13/2004 10:15:26 AM PST
by
Campion
To: Campion
If you're saying it's a cultural thing, then I'd tell you that Christians sometimes need to rise above their culture. You'd tell that to a woman whose husband is not Christian, or a marginal one at best?
What does she do to protect herself from a man who obviously doesn't care if he exposes her to the AIDS virus? I'm serious about this.
Is the Church reduced to just mouthing platitudes, patting the woman on the head, and telling her that "God will provide"?
36
posted on
01/13/2004 10:18:23 AM PST
by
sinkspur
(Adopt a shelter dog or cat! You'll save one life, and maybe two!)
To: Alberta's Child
Why would a Catholic be quoting the King James Version anyway?
To: johnb2004
I do not know that condoms bring or save life.They offer better protection than nothing at all.
I would ask you a question. Would Christ allow an airplane to fall out of the sky and kill all? Would Christ allow a baby to be born with no arms?
What do these have to do with anything? I can't control what other people do with airplanes, nor the birth of a baby with no arms.
I CAN control whether or not a woman is exposed to a deadly virus.
38
posted on
01/13/2004 10:21:04 AM PST
by
sinkspur
(Adopt a shelter dog or cat! You'll save one life, and maybe two!)
To: Stone Mountain
I would hope they would give assent of the heart and mind to all that the Church of Christ teaches. I would hope they would accept all that God gives them. I would hope that they follow a well formed conscience that does not place themselves above the Church. I would hope they follow Christ and not pop culture or lax dissobedient trendy vicars. I would hope they believe there exists an eternal Truth.
In other words, he's full of so-called scriptural hot air and doesn't have an answer one for you.
To: sinkspur
platitudes? You think obeying Christ is some platitude. Your secular mindset is exactly what is wrong with the Church today. Do you ever look at actions from the stand point of eternity? Does everything come down to a condom or VOTF or some secular answer to you?
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