The false dilemma behind the Bush Amnesty

January 17th, 2004 | Sabertooth

[Southack]

"In fact, of all the illegal aliens that were forced to return to Mexico in 1954, the majority of them went back voluntarily."

Why?

[arete]

That's not the trick, the trick is how did Bush turn so many conservatives into socialist lemmings?

Not this conservative. He lost my vote.

Richard W.

[PSYCHO-FREEP]

I believe you have a valid point in regards to voluntary deportation. I can see where it would encourage accountability.

The nature of the border itself makes direct barrier enforcement nearly impossible. The President's plan is to make a registry to keep track of the temporary as well as permanent immigrants.

Mostly, we need to tone down the rhetoric and look logicly at the facts to solve the problem.

Arguing about it won't make it happen. Listening to each other does however.

[Southack]

"Why reward criminal aliens and punish law-abiding aliens?"

Why have plea bargains? Why not try every case?

The answer, of course, has to do with resources. Some problems are too large to be comfortably dealt with by simply using brute force.

[AzJohn]

I'm not familiar with the Cato conference, but it sounds like that phrase was misused in that particular discussion. My point was more general--that there is not an inherent contradiction in saying that the visa can be renewed many times and also saying that it has an end date.

[jimkress]

So, for now, my vote remains Bush's to lose, and I'm getting a big clothes-pin ready for November. Could he lose it? Sure, but I'd have to think long and hard on it. Something rotten would have to happen, though, because I'd vote for him today.

The lesser of two evils is still evil. As long as people refuse to follow (and vote) their principles, evil prospers.

The only difference between the Republicans and the Democrats is that the Democrats want the US ruled by a combination of national and international despots while the Republicans will settle for tyranny by just national despots. The end result is the same - the destruction of our freedom.

Given the objectives of both parties are the same, how can anyone justify supporting either party?

Save America from the tyranny of Republican/Democrat hegemony. Support the Constitution Party.

[taxed2death]

gee, how about
4. Obey and abide by the laws of our Constitution, regarding the protection of our borders.

[PSYCHO-FREEP]

I am not in a contest or looking for pre-qualifying attributes in order to validate my stance. I keep track of current events like most people.

To answer your question about what President Bush has done, I believe he is in the process of doing something about that currently.....Or otherwise, why is this discussion being taking place?

[txdoda]

President Bush signed the workplace verification bill to prevent hiring of illegal Aliens
S. 1685, the Basic Pilot Extension Act of 2003, was signed by President Bush on December 3, 2003.>>>>>>

Yes, & isn't program a 'tool' that employers may use *voluntarily* to verify correct SS #'s ???

This law should have made it *mandatory* to verify SS #'s, IF the gov't was serious about working illegals or ID theft.

[Marine Inspector]

President Bush signed the workplace verification bill to prevent hiring of illegal Aliens S. 1685, the Basic Pilot Extension Act of 2003, was signed by President Bush on December 3, 2003. It extends for five years the workplace employment eligibility authorization pilot programs created in 1996. It expands the pilot programs from the original five states to all 50 states.

Yes, he helped those folks that want to avoid hiring illegal aliens, but neither bill/law has or will curtailed illegal immigration.

Marine Inspector

[moehoward]

"Thus, I see these new rules being enforced. Enforcing these new rules is far more manageable than the old problem of attempting to use force and resources on all 8 million illegals."

Not me. I see "new rules" that will mean just as much to Illegals as the old rules. I see "new rules" that will cost Americans dearly in the form of lost jobs to unlimited cheaper foreign labor.

This re-newing of the arrangement every three years just simply does not ring true. I cannot see many employers wanting to renew when they can just bring in new meat every cycle at the lowest possible price.

[AzJohn]

It has been proven time and time again, that legalizing illegal aliens encourages more illegal immigration....Why reward criminal aliens and punish law-abiding aliens?

I would agree that the illegals should be penalized somehow relative to those that have never broken the law. But there are ways of doing that short of having them leave the country. I did think that this was a possible shortcoming of the President's proposal, and hope that Congress does something about that in the upcoming months/years.

[Marine Inspector]

Legalizing without prior vetting provides an incentive for more illegals to come before the cut off

Ageed.

Marine Inspector

[Southack]

"Yes, he helped those folks that want to avoid hiring illegal aliens, but neither bill/law has or will curtailed illegal immigration."

You mean that immigration would be the same or lower if that bill hadn't permitted employers such as myself to determine if employee applicates were legal (for real, without forged papers)?!

[AzJohn]

If you fast track the visa apps of people using the system now in place with a job in the US then many will self deport once the word gets out. So I think you can have the vetting and registration and also allow most aliens to come back and work and have them pay for the deportation costs themselves.

You might have something there. It seems you'd have to allow a grace period of a couple years for all that to take place, but I can't see any real flaw to it.

[MattAMiller]

The last phrase was contradicted by a member of the Bush Administration at the Cato conference referenced above.

She's not the one in charge.

[WilliamofCarmichael]

I'd accept them as citizens IF the emphasis was on English only, acting as Americans, no multi-culti crap, make foreign hyphenated groups' advocates, et al register as foreign lobbyists, and delete government documents, etc. that are not in English. (Remove the Spanish version of whitehouse.gov would be a good start.)

We citizens could help enforce those aspects in a respectful but firm manner.

I truly believe that we need many of them and I believe that many of them are the type that made America great. But I don't want their language and "third world cesspool" cultures here no matter where they are from -- and that goes for snotty Europeans.

Promising to enforce the law this time is an insult. It's like Lucy promising Charlie Brown that she'll hold the football steady.

There are too many hyphenated groups with too much power for the government to promise anything. Then of course there are the likes of the ACLU pukes, activitist courts, anti-"profiling" and "hate crime" laws, and most of all, $$$$$$$ for puke politicians.

Dem rats want to give our sovereignty to tranzies and now Republicans pat us on the back with assurances while they micturate down our leg knowing that they will not deliver -- it is their policy to pander to the fast-growing immigrant sector. IMO it insults Americans of those ethnicities but apparently Mr. Rove feeeeeeeeels otherwise.

[Marine Inspector]

The answer, of course, has to do with resources. Some problems are too large to be comfortably dealt with by simply using brute force.

I agree, and letting the legal aliens from outside the country have those jobs, would cost less and use less resources then implementing Bush's program.

Marine Inspector

[mrustow]

I never forgot what Buchanan said about him during the primary, and he was right.

What was that?

[Marine Inspector]

You mean that immigration would be the same or lower if that bill hadn't permitted employers such as myself to determine if employee applicates were legal (for real, without forged papers)?!

The same, not lower. The bill does not curtail illegal immigration. If you don't hire the illegal, someone else will.

Marine Inspector