Man convicted of operating 'drug house'

There is a difference between keeping invaders out and your own citizens trapped within.

An electrified 15 foot reinforced steel fence with razor wire does duel duty. It keep you inside and other's outside. Neither situation sounds like "the Land of the Free and the Home of the Brave." You can't think past next week can ya' Beck?

Paleo-cons have wet dreams about a strong leader who will save them from the American People. In fact you blame Dubya because he does what the American People demand. It is the American People who will not stand for vigilantes gunning down wetback trespassers. It is the American People who will not tolerate their grandparents choosing to eat dog food so they can pay for their prescription drugs. It is the American People who will vote out the first politician that says I will end the Dept of Education. If you ever get that strong leader of your fantasies, and that wall gets built around America...I expect you to be the first one up against it when "Premier Tancredo" does something you don't like and you think the American People have a right to be heard.

"An electrified 15 foot reinforced steel fence with razor wire does duel duty. It keep you inside and other's outside. Neither situation sounds like "the Land of the Free and the Home of the Brave." You can't think past next week can ya' Beck?"

So having an 80 year old grandmother's socks sniffed by a dog at the airport isn't the equivalent of your proverbial "electric fence"? And last time I checked, the 80 year old grandmother didn't need to sneak out of the U.S. via the Arizona desert. You're so full of it, it's scarey. I guess you approve of the open border with Canada and would have said "that's the price of freedom" had the Y2K Arabs suceeded in bombing the Space Needle.

" Paleo-cons have wet dreams about a strong leader who will save them from the American People."

Ah yes, another liberal answer. Let's label everyone.

"In fact you blame Dubya because he does what the American People demand."

I guess that makes FR a Paleo-con haven since over 60% dissapprove of the plan you claim the American people support. Not to mention upwards of 83% in most polls want the borders sealed. Why don't you try some research instead of asking illegals what they want?

" It is the American People who will not stand for vigilantes gunning down wetback trespassers."

Nor do I. Where have I ever stated that I support that?

"It is the American People who will not tolerate their grandparents choosing to eat dog food so they can pay for their prescription drugs."

And that has what to do with illegals stealing the grandparents Social Security?

"It is the American People who will vote out the first politician that says I will end the Dept of Education."

Ah yes, another successful socialist endeavour. I'm glad you proclaim your Paleo-Socialist support for the Great Society.

"If you ever get that strong leader of your fantasies, and that wall gets built around America.."

And I suppose you are a Deaniac. That would explain alot of your postings.

"I expect you to be the first one up against it when "Premier Tancredo" does something you don't like and you think the American People have a right to be heard."

I would suggest reading my tagline. Then his greatest works, the Federalist Papers. Your ignorance just magnifies the brilliance of my posts.

I guess that makes FR a Paleo-con haven since over 60% dissapprove of the plan you claim the American people support. Not to mention upwards of 83% in most polls want the borders sealed.

83%...I missed all of those. I've seen lots of polls and 83% is new to me, since you say "most polls" you should have no trouble finding just one link from a reputable polling source for me. Would you please?

I didn't say the American people support the President's plan. I don't think the American people care about illegal immigration unless the economy gets bad. Then illegal immigrants make an attractive scapegoat. What I was trying to help you understand was that if the American People start seeing mothers getting gunned down at the border, stormtroopers guarding checkpoints, and more Elian's taken away at gunpoint they will care.

Here is a Fox news poll

FOXNews.com - FOX News/Opinion Dynamics Poll - Bush Numbers Up At Start of Election Year

8. Later this month President Bush will give his State of the Union Address to the nation. What topic are you most interested in hearing the president talk about during his speech? (OPEN ENDED)

The economy/jobs 35%
Iraq 17
Terrorism 10
Health Care 4
Medicare/prescription Drugs 4
Education 3
Immigration/illegal aliens 2
Social Security 2
Taxes 2
Budget Deficit 1
Other 5
None 6
Not sure 9

And I suppose you are a Deaniac.
I would suggest reading my tagline.

Would you take your own advice? I will not. If you see my tagline you will see that I am proud of my President. He is a true servant of the People and I intend to rehire him in November.

"I'm kind of with Once-Ler on this. People act as though drugs wouldn't exist but for illegal aliens. The true fact of the matter is though that as long as there is a demand for these drugs, people are going to get them some way or another. Whether the guys selling meth in this case where illegal aliens is really irrelevant. If it wasn't foreigners doing it then it would have been a bunch of local born white guys. That's who sells 99% of the meth where I live."

"Totally untrue. Methamphetamine manufacture has exploded in the last decade and Mexicans are so often involved in it. In labs in the USA and imports from Mexico. The easy availability of meth has created more customers. Makes it easier to yield to temptation."

I suppose it's the damned Mexicans who have made meth so popular in Hawaii. I suppose it's the Mexicans who made it so popular all through rural America and in small towns everywhere where they have few or no Mexicans. Look Dennis, you won't get any argument from me on the fact that Mexicans are involved with large scale meth operations bringing meth over the border and even cooking it out on the west coast and along the border states. There are probably Mexicans involved in it all over the place. But that doesn't change the _fact_ that it's regular old white guys who are the ones around here and in small towns across America who are the ones always getting busted cooking and selling the stuff. Easily 19 out of 20 times when people are busted for meth here it's local white guys. It wasn't Mexicans who got all of these people started on it. They did it to themselves.

Why do some people have such an irrepressible need to blame someone else for all of their problems?

Huh. 20 million illegal immigrants. Let's see. First, there's the crime of violating the territorial laws of a sovereign nation. So every single one is a criminal...

He said 'But don't worry, 20 million more won't affect the crime rate.' Which is obviously a sarcastic statement - since by definition an illegal immigrant breaks the law.

But I do have a question for you, since you seem to view illegal immigrants as being 'humans yearning for a better way of life.' What of the millions waiting to come to this country to not only live here and make money, but because their dream is to be a citizen and to live the American dream?

Should they continue to be kept out because others decide that following the rules is not for them? What about the millions who didn't bother to apply for Reagan's amnesty? What about the repeated reports, over and over again, of illegals who don't want to stop being Mexicans?

Yeah, there's a hell of a lot of hard working people who broke the law to come to this country with every intention of someday being offered the chance to earn their citizenship. But for every one of them, there's at least three who want to come here the legal way, who don't want to start the American dream by being a criminal, but instead want to start out right.

I suggest that you dismount from your high horse, drop the personal insults, and actually participate in the discussion rather than inputing your own biases into the mouthes of others. There are enough sides in this debate, many of which are impassioned, that increasing the complexity by taking things personally degrades the topic to the point of kindergarten shouting matches, and kids don't make laws or policy, nor are they allowed to vote.

I see illegal immigrants as humans yearning for a better way of life.

I see illegal "immigrants" as just what they are, lawbreakers. And it's ok to yearn for a better way of life, but it's not ok to violate the law in the course of trying to achieve that better way of life.

Other people see them only as sub-human leeches who deal drugs and collect welfare.

A lot of them do deal drugs and collect welfare. Don't blame FReepers for that. If our government were doing it's job, illegal aliens wouldn't be here to deal their drugs and collect their welfare, among other things.

I have a real problem with people who think that way. They were the same kind of people who excused, cheered, and followed Hitler, Stalin, Mao, and Pol Pot. I think they are sick in the head.

Based on these comments, as odd and irrelevant as they are, you appear to be the one who has problems in your head.

I'm on the west coast, and our papers are filled with story after story of white guys making meth. Banning has moved up the rankings to become the new capital, last I heard, but before that it was the San Gabriel Valley (home of the Rose Parade) that had homes blowing up over and over again.

In the list of convicted drug dealers that the papers occasionally publish, it appears the names reflect Caucasians. I've also never heard any of my sheriff deputy customers mention Mexicans as being involved in the meth trade - usually it is in distributing crank and crack. A couple seconds on Google seems to support this conclusion unless there is a vast underreporting of Mexicans being involved in meth labs.

"But the demand for drugs isn't being satisfied in such a large part by a country like Canada which shares and even longer border. It's a problem fairly unique to countries like Mexico which has a very corrupt government and politicians that are readily bought and owned by drug cartels. Mexico is being destroyed from within ---- it's crime rate is skyrocketing upward."

Well let's think about this for a minute. Why is it that drugs usually come from south of the border? Could it be because that's where all of the stuff like opium poppies, coca plants and marijuana so readily grow? Coca plants don't grow in Canada. Their climate isn't particularly suited for opium poppies either. And although they've learned to grow indoors and use early blooming varieties on their outdoor marijuana, Canada hasn't always been the best country for large scale marijuana growing because of it's climate. South of the border is where the coca plants thrive. That's where the poppy fields are productive and vast expanses of land along with nearly year round growing seasons make it so easy to grow marijuana "trees" that could be twenty or more feet tall bearing literally pounds of buds.

People south of the border produce and traffic in drugs because they can. Mexicans have always been highly involved because they have always been a marijuana producing nation and because they are right on our border. They are the gateway for all of the drugs from Central and South America. And they are also a poor and corrupt country. A rule of thumb that you can pretty much go by is that the poorer the country, the more corrupt its government and police will be. This is the kind of environment where "drug cartels" flourish.

But don't think this sort of thing doesn't go on in Canada, or in Europe or right here in the good ole' USA for that matter. Aside from being the country that consumes more illegal drugs than any other, we've always been a big producer as well of LSD, meth, and other drugs such as those that didn't require ingredients that weren't readily available here. We've even become a huge producer of marijuana and that trend is only likely to grow if homeland security measures actually work and it becomes harder to smuggle things across our borders. Who do you think taught the Canadians to grow that powerful Canadian bud we often hear about these days? American growers we're the innovators in indoor marijuana growing ever since people discovered that you could grow plants with fluorescent lights and high pressure sodium and metal halide high intensity discharge lamps that light parking garages, factories and streets. Americans even beat the Dutch to the punch.

Not only are we big producers and consumers of illegal drugs, but we've also been the major smuggling point for drugs going into Canada. Most of the drugs that found their way into Canada since the sixties have come across our borders. The tables may be turning somewhat because of increased traffic of Canadian marijuana over our borders. But apparently much of the Canadian pot that's coming down here is coming in exchange for cocaine smuggled from here up to there.

I'm not here to take up for Mexico. The main point I wanted to make is that as long as there is demand for drugs, people are going to get these drugs from somewhere. And just like any other products, people tend to look at quality and price before they look at nation of origin when purchasing commodities.

That's been my experience too here in the mid south. I'm actually there in the courtroom every time we have first appearances or arraignments. I actually see and talk to most of these guys. It's rare when we see Mexicans involved. I don't remember ever once seeing a Mexican arrested for being involved with a meth lab around here, and meth labs are busted here almost every week, sometimes several in a week. I have seen a few occasions though where Mexicans were busted with a little personal stash of meth and even a few where they were busted driving through our county carrying large, several pound loads of meth destined for out east somewhere.

Now, the story changes a little when we talk about marijuana. Mexicans are often busted with huge loads of Mexican pot coming through our county, I'm talking hundreds and hundreds of pounds or more at a time. We get these types of busts quite frequently and a disproportionate amount of the time the mules are in fact Mexicans. I'd say somewhere around a third of the time the pot mules are Mexicans or Mexican Americans. Occasionally they are illegal aliens, but not usually. Most of the time the big dealers are looking for people who won't arouse too many suspicions if they are stopped along the way.

But I do have a question for you, since you seem to view illegal immigrants as being 'humans yearning for a better way of life.' What of the millions waiting to come to this country to not only live here and make money, but because their dream is to be a citizen and to live the American dream?

Let them come. There is plenty of space and lots of jobs that need to be filled. Obviously our current immigration quotas are not sufficient to meet the demand for workers in the USA.

I suggest that you dismount from your high horse, drop the personal insults, and actually participate in the discussion rather than inputing your own biases into the mouthes of others.

I call 'em as I see 'em. I could post crime story after anecdotal crime story about black or white criminals with a comment in the title like (Black Crime News Again) and people would rightly call me a bigot.

The fact is crime is going down in this country and things are getting better. The massive influx of illegal immigration after the Reagan Amnesty did not hurt this country. If you recall inflation, unemployment, and interest rates were double digit high during the 70s. In the 80s and 90s we had tremendous growth with only a slight recession in 91-92. Today were are recovering from another very mild recession that has lingered because of the 9-11 attack. I don't consider illegal immigration from Mexico anymore a threat than the unregulated immigration from Poland, German, China, Italy, etcetera etcetera since the forming of this country even though, with every wave, there have been people who have cried "Doom!"

There are enough sides in this debate, many of which are impassioned, that increasing the complexity by taking things personally degrades the topic to the point of kindergarten shouting matches, and kids don't make laws or policy, nor are they allowed to vote.

Yeah? Well, he started it. :)

Let them come. There is plenty of space and lots of jobs that need to be filled. Obviously our current immigration quotas are not sufficient to meet the demand for workers in the USA.

Let them come? Wouldn't that be a decision of the sovereign government rather than just random people? Or does the rule of law only apply sometimes? Does this mean that when I break into your house and steal your stuff, I can turn around and just say you had too much stuff to begin with and you weren't using it enough anyway?

If the rule of law applies to some, it should apply to all. I'm all for increasing legal immigration - bring them on, I say. Sure, communities change (some become Asian, for example) and there are some difficulties in transition, but legal immigrants are here to build a life, not collect money to send home as they cheat the system.

I could post crime story after anecdotal crime story about black or white criminals with a comment in the title like (Black Crime News Again) and people would rightly call me a bigot.

Sure, I agree with you - if the heading had said 'Hispanic Crime News Again' - but instead, it said 'illegal alien'. Can you be a bigot against a generic 'criminal' class? It could have been about a Polish illegal, or a Brazilian illegal - yet you claim this is bigotry? This is not about the person's race or political affiliation, etc - it is about criminals who continue to break the laws because the first crime was never prosecuted.

Breaking out the bigot word dilutes the discussion, it sidesteps the issue from one of rule of law to one of rule of political correctness.

Beyond, I take issue with your follow on statement - I don't consider illegal immigration from Mexico anymore a threat than the unregulated immigration from Poland, German, China, Italy, etc[...] Immigration is regulated, no matter which country it comes from. There is no such thing as unregulated immigration, only illegal immigration. A group of people who sneak across a border, or overstay a visa, or simply drive up to the border and say they are tourists and never leave can't simply say that the regulations do not apply to them. They do, and by using a phrase like 'unregulated immigration' or 'undocumented immigrants' you're creating smokescreens for the crime.

A lot of native born Americans deal drugs and collect welfare.
A lot of white people deal drugs and collect welfare.
A lot of black people deal drugs and collect welfare.
A lot of people with birthdays in the last 3 months of the year deal drugs and collect welfare.
A lot of people who drive Ford trucks deal drugs and collect welfare.
A lot of people who prefer Nestle's over Hershey's deal drugs and collect welfare.
A lot of people who hate Mexicans deal drugs and collect welfare.

And you say my comment are irrelevant...whoa.

I got a problem with drug dealing and welfare. I believe drug dealing is an offense that should be punished with prison time. I don't think anyone, legal or illegal, should recieve my tax money to stay at home. That includes welfare, unemployment insurance, disability, or Social Security. You seem to only have a problem with the Mexicans dealing drugs and getting welfare.

Judgeandjury I find you in contempt.

"Not at all, but if he's looking to work...yeah that's OK with me."

Federal Immigration and Nationality Act
Section 8 USC 1324(a)(1)(A)(iv)(b)(iii)

"Any person who . . . encourages or induces an alien to . . . reside . . . knowing or in reckless disregard of the fact that such . . . residence is . . . in violation of law, shall be punished as provided . . . for each alien in respect to whom such a violation occurs . . . fined under title 18 . . . imprisoned not more than 5 years, or both."

Section 274 felonies under the federal Immigration and Nationality Act, INA 274A(a)(1)(A):

A person (including a group of persons, business, organization, or local government) commits a federal felony when she or he:

* assists an alien s/he should reasonably know is illegally in the U.S. or who lacks employment authorization, by transporting, sheltering, or assisting him or her to obtain employment, or

* encourages that alien to remain in the U.S. by referring him or her to an employer or by acting as employer or agent for an employer in any way, or

* knowingly assists illegal aliens due to personal convictions.

Penalties upon conviction include criminal fines, imprisonment, and forfeiture of vehicles and real property used to commit the crime. Anyone employing or contracting with an illegal alien without verifying his or her work authorization status is guilty of a misdemeanor. Aliens and employers violating immigration laws are subject to arrest, detention, and seizure of their vehicles or property. In addition, individuals or entities who engage in racketeering enterprises that commit (or conspire to commit) immigration-related felonies are subject to private civil suits for treble damages and injunctive relief.

When you scoff at this law, you are aiding and abetting illegals to steal American taxpayer's money.
You are also aiding and abetting illegals who rob banks, rape, kill,scam,run drugs,etc.

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