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To: Only1choice____Freedom
Christ placed an earthly leader on earth in Peter as the first Pope.
He's not dead as we know death, but on some levels he is not here or we would not be waiting for HIS second coming right where he is to return like a thief in the night when you least expect it?

The Pope has some power in heaven and earth as well. Remember what Christ said to Peter ...
16:19 I will give to you the keys of the Kingdom of Heaven, and whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven; and whatever you release on earth will be released in heaven."

Jesus was a Rabbi, he was the promised Savior of Jewish scripture that proclaimed himself as such and only some Jews followed him. These Jews and others formed the original church, the Catholic Church.

Authority is not only an issue with the gay churches, but all those that originally broke away from the original Catholic Church (due to various sinning).

You are interpreting the scriptures yourself and without the Authority of the church, to be sure you are very open to miss-interpretation.
The Catholic Church since Christ himself has kept the records, meanings of scriptures and given directions of all through the Authority of the church.
Without the Authority of the church, you can be endlessly lost.

Accepting Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior for your salvation is what makes Lutherans or anybody Christian. But lacking the Authority of the original church, you tend to be like a chicken running around without a head looking for answers in everything but the right place.

You start to look through only your own eyes and not the eyes of Christ's church and that can lead to humanism real quick.
25 posted on 01/21/2004 7:28:33 PM PST by A CA Guy (God Bless America, God bless and keep safe our fighting men and women.)
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To: A CA Guy
But lacking the Authority of the original church...

So you are saying that the Catholic, being the original church, is the only source of authority for any church until Christ’s' return. Since every other church broke away and the Pope holds all the authority. They have none. Right?

No authority to heal in his name, no authority to cast out demons, no authority to perform miracles in his name. No authority at all. Certainly no authority to bring someone to Christ to be saved. And yet it happens daily. How can this be? All fraud? all Satan?

Can there be no other authority than the Pope? What do you do if he is corrupt? After all he is only human and with an unimaginable power. In 2000 years there have been no corrupt Popes? Not one? If the Pope be corrupt, then what authority does anyone have?

27 posted on 01/21/2004 8:48:19 PM PST by Only1choice____Freedom (The word system implies they have done something the same way at least twice)
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To: A CA Guy
Without the Authority of the church, you can be endlessly lost.

I understand Catholicism much better now. This was the piece I was missing! Thank you!!

I can see history through their eyes a little clearer now.

I don't agree with it, but I understand it.

Over and over in the Bible it states that GOD, his word, The Holy Spirit and Jesus are the only real authorities for his people.

Without any authority you will be lost. Who's authority is the question? God's, the Pope's, your own, another human? none?

Jesus is more than a Rabbi or even a Prophet, he is the son of God. He is not a person who left and is coming back he is here, today, alive in the Holy Spirit. Teaching his followers. Leading his church of believiers.

But lacking the Authority of the original church, you tend to be like a chicken running around without a head looking for answers in everything but the right place.

This would be true except for the Holy Spirit. He is the one who shows us who Christ really is because they are one in the same.

I noticed that you haven't mentioned him much. Without the Holy Spirit in your church, you might as well be doing a raindance. The Holy Spirit is what drove the diciples out of Pentecost and into a lost world. The Holy Spirit is what drives the Church.

John 16:13-15 When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not be presenting his own ideas; he will be telling you what he has heard. He will tell you about the future. He will bring me glory by revealing to you whatever he receives from me. All that the Father has is mine; this is what I mean when I say that the Spirit will reveal to you whatever he receives from me.

I'm sure from the outside you don't see what I see or hear what I hear but I know God's spirit when it is present. The Pope has no authority over him. He is a part of God and is available to everyone who seeks him. You just have to be prepared to recieve him. If the Holy Spirit is not leading you and your church, you will most certianly be lost.

That is the secret. If I were not in a church led by the Holy Spirit, I would have to do something. Either reform the church and bring them back into repentance or leave.

This is the problem the patrons of the Episcopal church are facing now. It is the problem Martin Luther faced. I have seen it several times. I have seen it go both ways. Not on such a grand scale as this, but the same situation. A sad situation any way you look at it.

Without the Holy Spirit, you can do nothing. I am not a Humanist. I don't see God in human terms just with a human heart.

30 posted on 01/21/2004 10:42:01 PM PST by Only1choice____Freedom (The word system implies they have done something the same way at least twice)
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