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Muslims outpace Anglicans in UK
The Sunday Times (UK) ^ | 1/25/04 | Nicholas Hellen

Posted on 01/24/2004 4:31:16 PM PST by saquin

ATTENDANCE at Britain’s mosques has outstripped the number of regular worshippers in the Church of England for the first time.

Figures compiled from government and academic sources show that 930,000 Muslims attend a place of worship at least once a week, compared with 916,000 Anglicans.

Muslim leaders said it was a landmark in the rise of Islam in Britain and that Muslims must receive a share of the Church of England’s privileged status.

This weekend David Hope, the Archbishop of York, second in the church hierarchy, conceded defeat. His spokesman said: “The archbishop acknowledges the overtaking of Church of England numbers by the Muslim community. But he believes that many more people have an affinity to the church than the number recorded as having attended once on a Sunday.” According to the 2001 census, three-quarters of the British population regards itself as Christian.

The Muslim community does not keep registers of attendance in mosques. However, the 2001 census included a question about religious adherence.

Those results, released last year, have been supplemented by surveys to give the first reliable assessment of worshipping Muslims.

The census recorded 1.59m Muslims but academics believe the true figure is at least 1.8m. Ceri Peach, professor of social geography at Oxford University, said the census failed to record the balance because the question was voluntary.

Research by Tariq Modood, a professor of sociology at Bristol University, found that 62% of Muslims pray in places of worship. The total is about 930,000 if young children, most of whom do not worship in the mosque, are excluded. The figure underestimates the number of practising Muslims. Mohammed Anwar, professor of ethnic relations at the University of Warwick, said: “In addition to those who go to the mosque, many Muslims also pray at home.”

Immigration from Eastern Europe and conversions are adding to the number of Muslims. Inayat Bunglawala, of the Muslim Council of Great Britain, said that British converts to Islam totalled 20,000 in the past 10 years.

Muslim leaders now want to translate their numerical advantage into tangible gains. The Church of England commands 26 seats in the House of Lords but Lord Ahmed, a Labour peer, said 10 extra seats should be allocated to other religions.

Peter Brierley, executive director of the Christian Research Association, pointed out that the total number of Christian worshippers still far outstrips the number of Muslims. The Catholic church has about 1.5m British worshippers.


TOPICS: News/Current Events; United Kingdom
KEYWORDS: churchofengland; europeanchristians; muslims; uk; ukmuslims
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...and so it begins.
1 posted on 01/24/2004 4:31:18 PM PST by saquin
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To: saquin
Here's to hoping that the quintessential British 'stiff upper lip' prevails. Britain is the firewall between 'us' and 'them'.
2 posted on 01/24/2004 4:34:58 PM PST by Viking2002
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To: saquin
I hate to say it, but the Anglicans have gone so wishy-washy that they have lost many believers. The Muslim faith at least declares absolute truths.
3 posted on 01/24/2004 4:36:04 PM PST by Blood of Tyrants (Even if the government took all your earnings, you wouldn’t be, in its eyes, a slave.)
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To: saquin
John Rhys-Davies, aka Gimli, to the rescue!
4 posted on 01/24/2004 4:38:45 PM PST by Land_of_Lincoln_John
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To: saquin
sad and scary. Wonder what Winston would say if he were still around. :<
5 posted on 01/24/2004 4:40:04 PM PST by KantianBurke (2+2 does NOT equal 5)
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To: saquin
Muslim leaders said it was a landmark in the rise of Islam in Britain and that Muslims must receive a share of the Church of England’s privileged status.

Wheee! Mooselimbs discover democracy!

6 posted on 01/24/2004 4:40:37 PM PST by Oztrich Boy (It is always tempting to impute unlikely virtues to the cute)
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To: Blood of Tyrants
Anglicans have gone so wishy-washy

Anglicans doubt the existence of god, but have no problem believing in gay bishops, gay marriages and gay parenting. I have more respect for the Muslims than I do for the Anglicans who have turned their backs on their faith.

7 posted on 01/24/2004 4:42:55 PM PST by nwrep
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To: saquin
That's right; give in. Let the jerks make sure there is no freedom of religion for anyone.
8 posted on 01/24/2004 5:01:10 PM PST by freekitty
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To: saquin
Muslim leaders said it was a landmark in the rise of Islam in Britain and that Muslims must receive a share of the Church of England’s privileged status.

Well, it's starting. First, a piece of the pie and then the entire thing.

Muslim leaders now want to translate their numerical advantage into tangible gains... Lord Ahmed, a Labour peer, said 10 extra seats should be allocated to other religions.

And, what should that "other religion" be, my dear Lord Ahmed? Baptist? Pentacostal? Catholic? Jewish?

If the Brits have any confusion where this is all headed, they need only just gaze southward toward the future Suzerainty of Muslim France.

What they see will make them shudder - or should, if they have a single lick of sense left!

9 posted on 01/24/2004 5:02:43 PM PST by Gritty ("We are in a race for civilization like none other since World War II"-Victor Davis Hanson)
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To: ahadams2
PING
10 posted on 01/24/2004 5:11:21 PM PST by Loyalist (The scalpel of the abortionist is the sword of Islam.)
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To: Akron Al; Alberta's Child; Andrew65; AniGrrl; Antoninus; apologia_pro_vita_sua; Askel5; attagirl; ..
PING
11 posted on 01/24/2004 5:12:19 PM PST by Loyalist (The scalpel of the abortionist is the sword of Islam.)
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To: KantianBurke
Was Churchill particularly Christian? I couldn't find much on the web about his religious views.
12 posted on 01/24/2004 5:12:25 PM PST by Lessismore
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To: Blood of Tyrants
> The Muslim faith at least declares absolute truths.

Absolutes, yes. Truths, no.
13 posted on 01/24/2004 5:13:50 PM PST by old-ager
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To: saquin
Europe will wake up too late.
14 posted on 01/24/2004 5:22:04 PM PST by Canticle_of_Deborah
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To: Viking2002
The firewall has already been breached in countries like Nigeria where the Christian population (in large part conservative Anglican) is persecuted and often murdered by their Moslem neighbors.
15 posted on 01/24/2004 5:24:07 PM PST by Malesherbes
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To: saquin
"...and so it begins" is exactly what I was thinking as I finished up the article. Man, the Euros have some serious, serious problems and they don't have any comprehension of what they're sliding into. Islam is moving north and unless something dramatic happens the Euros are going to lose their control and identity. They're begining to reap what they've sown over the past 30+ years.
16 posted on 01/24/2004 5:25:40 PM PST by bereanway
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To: saquin
read it and weep.
17 posted on 01/24/2004 5:37:19 PM PST by Eric in the Ozarks
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To: Malesherbes
The firewall has already been breached in countries like Nigeria where the Christian population (in large part conservative Anglican) is persecuted and often murdered by their Moslem neighbors.

And nary a sound is made by the Left. But let there be a word - indeed, a word - of ill will or perceived 'bigotry' against practicing members of that 'peace-loving' religion in Western society, and the Thought Police swoop down to pick your bones clean.

18 posted on 01/24/2004 5:40:32 PM PST by Viking2002
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To: bereanway
Every nation in the world that has a "white" majority is under assault demographically. The U.S. has a latin invasion underway, while Europe is under a Middle Eastern assault. I fear that any Western European culture that remains will soon be gone. Our liberal, guilt-ridden foreign and immigration policies have made us an endangered species. Unless something happens, no white persons will remain on this earth within 250 years. While we abort our children, the invaders produce 10 per capita. This situation will only worsen as time goes on. I truly fear for our heritage and our Western Civilization.
19 posted on 01/24/2004 5:41:51 PM PST by wylenetheconservative
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To: old-ager
Well, what THEY call "truths".
20 posted on 01/24/2004 5:50:33 PM PST by Blood of Tyrants (Even if the government took all your earnings, you wouldn’t be, in its eyes, a slave.)
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Comment #21 Removed by Moderator

To: JohnGalt; ninenot; u-89; sittnick; steve50; Hegemony Cricket; Willie Green; Wolfie; ex-snook; ...
Muslim leaders said it was a landmark in the rise of Islam in Britain and that Muslims must receive a share of the Church of England’s privileged status.

Wow! And for how long the Church of England will be tolerated? How many churches are in Saudi Arabia?

22 posted on 01/24/2004 6:00:14 PM PST by A. Pole (pay no attention to the man behind the curtain , the hand of free market must be invisible)
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To: Malesherbes
The firewall has already been breached in countries like Nigeria where the Christian population (in large part conservative Anglican) is persecuted and often murdered by their Moslem neighbors.

And much earlier it was breached in Northern Africa (it was Christian for centuries), in Syria, in Asia Minor (where the Ecumenical Councils took place and which is called Turkey now) in Egypt - the craddle of monasticism. It was fixed in Spain, Greece, Serbia and Russia.

23 posted on 01/24/2004 6:03:59 PM PST by A. Pole (pay no attention to the man behind the curtain , the hand of free market must be invisible)
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To: KantianBurke
"Wonder what Winston would say if he were still around."

I think he would say that unless Western Civilization finds the courage to expel the Muslims, it is finished.
24 posted on 01/24/2004 6:22:45 PM PST by dsc
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To: dsc
AMEN.
25 posted on 01/24/2004 6:41:25 PM PST by wylenetheconservative
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To: Loyalist; ahadams2; Eala; Grampa Dave; AnAmericanMother; N. Theknow; Ray'sBeth; hellinahandcart; ...
Thanks to Loyalist for the ping, Ping.
26 posted on 01/24/2004 6:51:19 PM PST by ahadams2 (Anglican Freeper Resource Page: http://eala.freeservers.com/anglican/)
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To: nwrep
only a tiny minority of Anglicans, mostly concentrated in the US, some parts of Canada, the UK, and some parts of South Africa have wandered from the faith, the other 50 million are doing just fine.
27 posted on 01/24/2004 6:52:40 PM PST by ahadams2 (Anglican Freeper Resource Page: http://eala.freeservers.com/anglican/)
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To: wylenetheconservative
Mexicans indeed have a Western European culture.
28 posted on 01/24/2004 6:55:52 PM PST by edwords
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To: edwords
As I've said before on FR, as illegals go, the US has got it best. At least they're Christian.
29 posted on 01/24/2004 6:59:32 PM PST by July 4th (George W. Bush, Avenger of the Bones)
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To: edwords; cardinal4
The Brits and the French are paying the price of empire. Their former serfs are now on the home ground and it ain't going to be pretty....
30 posted on 01/24/2004 7:01:39 PM PST by Ax
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To: saquin

31 posted on 01/24/2004 7:10:02 PM PST by Free ThinkerNY (((Free Your Mind)))
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To: saquin
I am a latent Episcopalian – America’s church in the Anglican Communion. I refuse to go to church. I refuse to give money to the Church. Until Anglicans can get their act together on what is right and wrong, and recognize what is good and evil I refuse to be a part of their mess. I know many that have been driven from the church by queers, political correctness, and fuzziness on right and wrong. I have no doubt about the reason why a minority (Muslims) can out-pace the majority in the UK. Same is true in the US. At one time the Episcopal Church was the dominant church in America. Stray from the truth, and the flock will stray.
32 posted on 01/24/2004 7:12:12 PM PST by PattonReincarnated (Rebuild the Temple)
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To: Blood of Tyrants
I hate to say it, but the Anglicans have gone so wishy-washy that they have lost many believers.

I was thinking the same thing. The COE churchs weren't (aren't) exactly full-to-bursting, regardless.

33 posted on 01/24/2004 7:25:39 PM PST by yankeedame ("Oh, I can take it but I'd much rather dish it out.")
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To: Ax
The Brits and the French are paying the price of empire..

Oh, buttermilk! As if the Muslims never had an empire themselves.

34 posted on 01/24/2004 7:29:53 PM PST by yankeedame ("Oh, I can take it but I'd much rather dish it out.")
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To: KantianBurke
We already know what his parrot would say.
35 posted on 01/24/2004 8:03:53 PM PST by secret garden (Go Predators! Go Spurs!)
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To: Lessismore
Churchill was Anglican.
36 posted on 01/24/2004 8:06:39 PM PST by secret garden (Go Predators! Go Spurs!)
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To: saquin
More like "and how it ENDS"

Lord achmed, ACHMED!?!?!?

Dead nation walking.
37 posted on 01/24/2004 8:09:45 PM PST by tubavil
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To: PattonReincarnated
I am a latent Episcopalian – America’s church in the Anglican Communion. I refuse to go to church. I refuse to give money to the Church. Until Anglicans can get their act together on what is right and wrong, and recognize what is good and evil I refuse to be a part of their mess. I know many that have been driven from the church by queers, political correctness, and fuzziness on right and wrong. I have no doubt about the reason why a minority (Muslims) can out-pace the majority in the UK. Same is true in the US. At one time the Episcopal Church was the dominant church in America. Stray from the truth, and the flock will stray.

Ditto. I'm keeping an eye on the conservative dissidents (the ones with traditional Anglican beliefs). Know anything about the Reformed Episcopal Church?

38 posted on 01/24/2004 8:10:16 PM PST by Siamese Princess
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To: Canticle_of_Deborah
Europe will wake up too late.

So will the US.
39 posted on 01/24/2004 8:34:01 PM PST by Travelgirl
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To: Travelgirl
Europe will wake up too late. So will the US.

Yep. There is a great deal of finger-wagging at Europe on this thread, but the sad fact is that we Americans have done the same thing with our egalitarianism and our charity. We have invited to our shores millions who have taken advantage of democratic ideals and economic opportunity here and would if they could take over entirely. When they achieve anything like parity they demand supremacy. Soon--in my lifetime--Christianity will be driven underground.

40 posted on 01/24/2004 10:05:15 PM PST by Capriole (Foi vainquera)
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To: saquin
INTREP - TROP
41 posted on 01/24/2004 10:08:26 PM PST by LiteKeeper
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To: wylenetheconservative
Unless I'm mistaken, this will be the first self-genocide (at least of this scale) in world history.

The irony, of course, is that contraception and abortion were promoted by social Darwinists as a means of controlling the swarthy masses.

Instead, it is through these very means that Western culture and its people will be exterminated.

The heritage of liberalism and atheism is indeed harsh.

42 posted on 01/24/2004 10:14:46 PM PST by B Knotts (Go 'Nucks!)
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To: saquin
Lest there be any question about why Britain is facing this doom at this particular time, here is a fine example:

Infanticide is justifiable in some cases, says ethics professor

43 posted on 01/24/2004 10:20:17 PM PST by B Knotts (Go 'Nucks!)
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To: B Knotts
Our liberals have gone to such lengths to ensure the culture of outsiders is respected that they have abandoned our own. While the culture of recent immigrants is celebrated and honored with Latin and day parades, the symbol of Southern heritage is assaulted with impunity every day. Soon we will not be able to withstand the assault any longer, even in my home of Mississippi. All heritage and culture will eventually be lost for our descendants. Soon thereafter, as an oppressed minority, we will assimilate into the dominant culture for survival. I hate to harbor such pessimism, but I fear this to be the reality of the situation. Western Civilization will indeed soon be dead.
44 posted on 01/24/2004 10:24:12 PM PST by wylenetheconservative
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To: A. Pole
At least Poland is not plauged by Muslim fifth columnists. So has more freedom to do what's good and right. And has been friendly to Israel and vis versa.
45 posted on 01/24/2004 11:52:02 PM PST by dennisw (“We'll put a boot in your ass, it's the American way.” - Toby Keith)
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To: tubavil
I noticed that Lord Achmed too. Cognitive dissonance set in.
46 posted on 01/24/2004 11:53:42 PM PST by dennisw (“We'll put a boot in your ass, it's the American way.” - Toby Keith)
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To: saquin
Grand Mufti of Canterbury bump.

47 posted on 01/24/2004 11:55:40 PM PST by PLMerite ("Unarmed, one can only flee from Evil. But Evil isn't overcome by fleeing from it." Jeff Cooper)
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To: Malesherbes
And the Sudan.
48 posted on 01/25/2004 6:14:46 AM PST by TruthNtegrity (I refuse to call candidates for President "Democratic" as they are NOT. They are Democrats.)
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To: saquin; ahadams2
I lived in London in 1979, 1980, and travelled there in 1982, 1983, and 1984. Each trip, I saw more and more Arabs, more and more Lebanese, Moroccan, Indian (well that's part of the former British territories) restaurants but it also amazed me the number of Rolls Royces they were driving around.

I then wondered if the typical Pub-goer would disappear, and sure enough, without any controls on their immigration, that's what has happened.

Now Brits are about to let in 33,000 Gipsies (their spelling, not mine) from Poland. Oh brother, for a group who is known to make their "living" off of stealing and gaming gambits, this is insane. And they have more babies than rabbits. -Oh, here come the PC police over that last one, but it's true. 33,000 of 'em - I fear for England's future.

TNT
49 posted on 01/25/2004 6:53:53 AM PST by TruthNtegrity (I refuse to call candidates for President "Democratic" as they are NOT. They are Democrats.)
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To: wylenetheconservative
What? You think America is not under attack by the Arab invasion?

The problem really is we have a two-front invasion - Arabs are using our Southern border to invade, or coming in on education or temporary work visas, then overstay them, and the Mexicans are invading us from the South.

Whether it's the border as represented by airports, or our actual border with Mexico, we need to do something to stop just letting everyone come here who wants to. We need to invoke the INS rules on percentages from countries and put control back in the process.

England has lost their typical Pub-goer. America is soon to lose the backbone of America. What happens then?
50 posted on 01/25/2004 7:06:05 AM PST by TruthNtegrity (I refuse to call candidates for President "Democratic" as they are NOT. They are Democrats.)
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